The District Weekly - Latest Comments in THE ICE RINK COMETH

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Dave in Alamitos Beach — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:33:25 -0000

Well thanks for saying such nice things about my crazy-but-cheap ideas. I wish there was a place for us collect all of these ideas and have everyone comment on them. The "new media" leads to a lot of balkanization and that doesn't help form a consensus of thought.

I don't mind people stealing my ideas, in fact I wish they would. Okay Suja? Robert Garcia? Anyone?

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Make Downtown Long Beach Cool — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 03:28:31 -0000

Dave from Alamitos Beach. I really like the direction of your ideas that you were mentioning. It just goes to show you that good ideas don't need to cost a lot of money and can come from anyone. I really like the tree idea, but first we need to start with better street trees.

Also, the pike idea is great as i feel the same about that damn place. The roads running through that place are such a bad idea. To fill them with water would be interesting or at least fill them with landscaping, water features, etc. The last time i checked you can't drive a car through the irvine spectrum or the block in orange. not that i'm a big fan of those places, but at least they don't have roads running through the middle of them that make no sense.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

forgettaboutit — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:53:39 -0000

Does the DLBA truly realize how small a 40' x 80' ice surface is? They expect how many skaters? And, how much are they really spending??? Forget about any safety concerns... Why be concerned if no thought is put towards it. Once again, only in Long Beach.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

What's_in_a _name? — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:10:46 -0000

I'm gonna have to agree with lbresident here...Juan-- it is kind of irritating to hear so much about how we should improve our city from someone who decided to bail out on it.

That said, I still enjoy your comments.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

What's_in_a _name? — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:07:34 -0000

Did somebody say "monorail?"

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Diana Bosetti — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 02:40:47 -0000

Hi John,

Well, let me first say thanks for the props, but frankly you probably give me too much credit. I don't hold myself above others (my dad would thump the top of my head if I did), nor do I believe that city planners or members of the DLBA are less intelligent. But I do wonder sometimes if egos have gotten in the way of good judgement. In my opinion, it just seems like too many of the decision makers have an over-inflated sense of what Pine Avenue should be, and not what it really is: A supplement to the surrounding neighborhood. Whether rich or poor, we all have the same need -- to find a place that has a lot of synergy, but is still a place we can sit down and kick up our heels.

I think that city planners need to focus on neighborhood infrastructure and open space first, regardless of whether it's for the rich or poor. Then let free enterprise take care of the rest.

This may not be feasible, or popular, but I've never understood the purpose of the Pike. If the Pike area would have instead been turned into a Mother's Beach/ park/sports area, I really think it would have been a hit. The City of Cerritos has mastered this concept . Throw in a state of the art library, and that makes for a pretty nice day: Aquarium, library, kayaking in a man-made lagoon, then lunch at Shoreline Village. Shoreline Drive would also need to be reconfigured so it doesn't feel like a freeway.

CityPlace is fine as it is, with the exception of a little maintenance and a mainstream grocery store.

As for Pine, and a good portion of the downtown, I've always thought the area should be more of a business district. Yes, that would equate to more highrises -- an idea that was nixed by city officials long ago -- despite being centrally located between LA and Orange County, as well as sitting next door to two of the worlds busiest ports. But over the last 15 years, there's been a demand for commercial space. Just look at the explosive growth of that sector in Irvine and all the way north into Yorba Linda. Yorba Linda! A city that's a hot, sticky dustbowl! The groundfloor of these highrises would be just what you'd expect in a business district: retail and restaurants, nightclubs, and an environment ripe for entertainment events. And yes, all this could include closing a portion of Pine -- where the existing historical buildings would be preserved, and venues like a farmer's market and Bikestation nurtured. An outdoor seasonal ice rink would also work well -- because there would be a clientele base to support it.

Next, there would need to be some serious sucking up to city planners in Signal Hill. They've got the land for residential development -- nice residential development -- to give both the white and blue-collared workers someplace to live. Granted every city is looking for that all powerful sales tax revenue, so there would likely need to be an equitable sales-tax sharing incentive between the two parties, not to mention a stronger nudging along of Craig Barto at Signal Hill Petroleum to actually do something with all that empty land.

After that, I think that real estate prices in neighborhoods just north of downtown would begin to rise on their own. People want to live closer to where they work and play, and there are a lot of historical homes that urban professionals would be chomping at the bit to acquire. And what about those crakerboxes? That's a little tougher. I am not a big fan of eminent domain at the expense of the poor. But some recent developments in Valencia and in Galveston, Texas, include a rather cool concept: affordable housing in square and u-shaped patterns, with open green space and community gardens in the middle. This type of residential living creates a sense of ownership in the community, even for renters.

Last but not least, the Long Beach area is extremely short on industrial space. Before letting out a collective gasp, industrial real estate is not what it was 20 years ago. I'm not talking smokestacks here, but rather newly constructed low-rise, divisible space on the westside. This type of development would have done well near the airport as well, but it's probably too late for that now.

So there you have it. Go easy on me. I don't pretend to be an expert.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Juan Pardell — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 21:06:26 -0000

So far, I recall twice where a seasonal ice skating rink, in downtown Long Beach, was attempted. The first one occurred at the Quen Mary, and didn't do very well. The second was at the sports arena, as part of a promotion for the Ice Dogs, where anyone was allowed to skate on the venue's ice rink. I don't believe it met its one-day projections. I'd be very suspicious whenever the DLBA proposes any event. Normally, the attendance figures don't match their estimates. Remember the Amgen Bike Tour and how many kept saying there were 250,000 spectators? http://www.lbreport.com/new... We all know that was a fabrication. I know there are hits & misses. However, the DLBA has a tendency to exaggerate the success of Long Beach events.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Bluff Heights Matt — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 20:30:26 -0000

First off, there are many things we can look to in the past that weren't handled the way they should've been. That's more than fair. But why keep harping on them instead of focusing on ways we can fix things moving forward?

And if you think that becasue you quote two people in your article who are against the idea of an ice rink that's a fair representation of the collective opinion of all who are invested in downtown, you are gravely mistaken.

Your article was entirely one-sided. You didn't bother to back up your assertions (even many of the examples you site above have nothing to do with the DLBA)...and your journalistic research and these assertions are based on "from what you can remember"?! It's no wonder the District has no clout and no respect.

And by the way, I think $300,000 to put in an ice rink for two months of the year is a steal! If it draws 20,000 people into downtown, parking in our structures, hopefully eating in our restaurants, etc then it's well worth the investment. Look at how much money is poured into events like Grand Prix (literally millions) - a 3 day event. University by the Sea spent almost $150,000 on a one day event last year that supposedly brought in 8,000 peope.

If you want to write stories about what people want and don't want, I suggest you talk to more than two people on the street. If you want to continue to write one-sided "news" pieces that harm the merchants and residents of downtown, keep up the not-so-good work.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Juan Pardell — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:55:54 -0000

Did I forget to mention New Year's Eve on the Promenade? That was another DLBA failure.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Diana Bosetti — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:19:05 -0000

Matt:

Hello again. I can understand why you are requesting that the DW write a story about the "great things happening" in the downtown area. As a merchant, you have high hopes for success -- and as you should. Unfortunately, having witnessed a series of planning missteps from city lackeys over the years, that type of optimism doesn't come so easily.

I'm assuming that you have been a part of the downtown area for some time? So then you might remember in 1994 when John Morris put a few tables and chairs out front -- a move that brought swift penalities and threatening letters from city staff.

You might also remember when Z Gallerie went before the planning commission to open up on Pine. Sadly, most of the planning commissioners had not even researched what Joe Ziden's company was all about -- but they sure didn't hesitate to strong-arm him into restoring the sunbeam mural inside the building. A project that if I remember correctly, cost about $10,000. It wasn't so much what the planning commission was asking Ziden to do, but how they treated him like an enemy until he agreed to do it.

Then 7-Eleven moved in, and a slew of Pine avenue merchants let out a collective outcry. Not the kind of image they were trying to convey, they said.

At the same time, countless meetings were being held regarding the aquarium and Queensway Bay project: I can't tell you how many people spoke up, loudly, about how the Pike (and two parking structures) would act like a Berlin Wall that would separate the aquarium from Pine Avenue. Or how no city could possibly support the sheer volume of retail that would be needed to fill Pine, the Pike, Shoreline Village and Queensway Bay. Nobody listened. Also, from what I remember, the DLBA was pretty quiet. In other words, it was hardly an advocate for the very constituents whose assessments were keeping the organization going.

You might wonder why I'm reaching so far back into the historical archives here. I think that both of us would agree that the soured relationship between the DLBA and many of the merchants in the area has greatly improved over the years. Still, I believe that the city, and sometimes the DLBA, continues to turn a deaf ear towards those who are actually invested in the downtown. That's too bad, because their memories are long, and their recollections are clear. So when they say that the $300,000 for a temporary outdoor ice rink may not be the best use of their assesed fees, maybe it's time that somebody listened to them.

I don't think that's being negative. That's called good business.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

lbresident — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:40:54 -0000

to Matt that is, very well said

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Juan Pardell — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:37:05 -0000

Improving Long Beach will cost lots and lost of money. That is something that Long Beach doesn't have. If your city had an environment, that persuaded developers to build the right types of projects, your hopes may have materialized. However, in regards to what came into the downtown area, Long Beach residents are stuck with decades worth of mistakes. Yes, do what I did. I left. No complaints on my end.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

lbresident — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:03:54 -0000

Very well said.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

lbresident — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:00:06 -0000

OK. You're right. Long Beach's past mistakes will preclude the city from ever improving in any way. Let's all move to SF and then post complaints about our long not-forgotten city and never try to improve the place.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Dave Wielenga — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:51:05 -0000

No, it was clear. That was my reference when I asked you where you heard me say that? I forgot that I wrote it, too. Anyway, I'm sincere about my appreciation for your readership and comments.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Juan Pardell — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:35:52 -0000

Look, past is prologue. In reference to this article, I'm stating spending $300,000 taxpayers dollars, for a concept that most likely won't work, is a waste of money. It seems no one in Long Beach city government is willing to learn from past mistakes. Then again, I shouldn't be the one complaining. That should be your job.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Shea Shizzle — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:28:34 -0000

HAHAHA... an Ice Rink huh... amazing how easy it is to convince desperate people that such ideas are "good" ideas. I ASSURE you that the DLBA is NOT the only group in the city that has "ideas" to help turn downtown LB around... its just that the people that can get these types of big events done ONLY listen to organizations like the DLBA. I have been doing events in this city for 5 years or so, I have thousands of ideas, just like other actual "DOWNTOWN RESIDENTS", but no one listens to the actual people that LIVE in downtown... but that is going to change this year suckas.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

lbresident — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:26:50 -0000

You make the point in every single one of your posts that LB has had failures. Point made.

Next time you feel like posting on a topic about a city 500 miles away from where you live and on a city you seemingly have no ties to, maybe think about whether simply pointing out a past failure will do anything to help going forward. Saying Cityplace sucks does not help in the discussion of an ice rink for example. If you think the ice rink is a bad idea, say so and then maybe even propose a better idea.

I mean really, we don't need you do point out past mistakes. We drive/walk by them every day.

And if you see no hope for LB as you seem to state in your last post, do us all a favor and post in the SF Chronicle instead of here. I am all for different points of view and even some complaining (heck I read this rag all the time) but absence of anything constructive is just not helpful. And you have never posted anything constructive (to my knowledge anyway).

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Juan Pardell — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:24:10 -0000

Matt. I can think of two over-hyped DLBA concepts that literally failed to attract the amount of projected audience that was expected: 1) Long Beach Live! 2) The Amgen Bike Tour

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Dave in Alamitos Beach — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:23:06 -0000

300K is a lot of money that's for sure, and I wouldn't 'mind going ice skating downtown...once. But I'd rather have some slightly simpler reasons to go downtown. For example:

How hard would it be for the city to host a "Green Xmas Tree Contest?" Use all the street trees on Pine Avenue downtown so you don't have to cut down any new ones. Then the city provides electrical power to each tree and every interested organization gets to "adopt" a tree for Xmas and decorate it as they see fit. The winner gets some sort of tacky Dancing With The Stars type trophy at a fun party. The "interested organizations" could be CSULB fraternities, the Boy Scouts, the Gay Parade, China Shipping, LB Yacht Club, etc. It's an idea anyway.

Or why not take some of that money and rent/give away storefront space to local artists. You'd only have to give them a couple hundred square feet in every available window. Ask the artists to create their work in the windows and then leave the work there. I'd love to see painting, sculpture, stained glass, dance practice, ethnic basket weaving, etc. The list is endless, as is the talent no doubt.

There - two ideas plus the slip-n-slide in five minutes of thought. And I know there are professionals and brainiacs out there who can do a lot better than me.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Juan Pardell — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:16:37 -0000

You're overstating. After all, I'm sure there are worse places on the planet than Long Beach. However, I don't see how you can ignore the mistakes that were made. Its not as if they're invisible. Cityplace and at the Pike are big blunders. Just looking at their results, its obvious not much thought was put into those projects. How has it impacted Long Beach. Well, your city is still subsidizing both to the tune of millions of dollars, when the desired result was supposed to yield a financial windfall for the taxpayers. Had that personally impacted me? No. But think of the many who purchased condos and lofts, based partly on the premise of a true downtown revitalization that failed to materialize. I would like to give a positive suggestion. However, just looking at the current state of downtown, I don't see how that is possible. Perhaps, start from scratch?

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Dave in Alamitos Beach — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:14:33 -0000

Thanks! And I assume that Four Seasons Ice is something I shouldn't look up while at work? ;-)

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

lbresident — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:54:07 -0000

I was quoting you. (sorry if it wasn't clear.) Actually read it in one of your posts.

I don't think we're ever in the same place but if for some reason we are I'll introduce myself.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

Bluff Heights Matt — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:45:57 -0000

Hi Diana,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. As a retailer and someone who is downtown on a daily basis, I appreciate your concerns and especially the experience you had with your kids.

However, your article, which was titled 'News' was nothing of the sort. It was pure editorial commentary. I won't sit here and say that everything the DLBA does is fantastic and I don't know that their ice rink idea will or won't have an impact on my business, but I don't see anyone else coming up with ideas for how to drive business and traffic to downtown over the course of the Holiday Season, when most people don't bother to come down here due to the absence of a Macy's or a Gap. I think it's worth a shot!

Many feel that there isn't any shopping to be done here, but the truth is that there's a lot going on here. We may have a different shopping experience, with boutique shops, handmade clothing, etc, but there is a lot available here and we need to get people here to support the existing businesses.

I also find it interesting that you mention in our article that the DLBA doesn't have a good track record...but to what exactly are you referring? You don't back up your assertions or accusations with any facts, which is one of my biggest pet peeves when coming from someone who claims to be a 'news journalist.' I've participated in some of their advertising promotions and have gotten a great response. And many of their events draw big crowds, which is more than I can say for the last public event the District put on...oh, that's right...the District doesn't do events because you're all too busy criticizing others who do.

If you have problems with the curbs in Downtown, call the City, which is the entity responsible for them. That's who I call on almost a weekly basis (and I agree with you that some of our curbs need to be addressed!). And you may complain about the blue structures outside of 7-11 which keep you from sitting there and enjoying a Slurpee, but guess what...they have also kept the homeless from sitting there and collecting money - a far more serious deterrant to visitors than you not having a place to sit...outside of a 7-11 (seriously? Have you ever seen a 7-11 that has outside seating?!?!)

While you and I can agree there's a disconnect between certain downtown projects and areas, that's no reason to constantly rip on new ideas that haven't been tried in our city that could actually have an impact on the businesses that are here, investing in downtown and needing every bit of help we can get in order to stay afloat.

Rather than being so negative, maybe you could do a story about the great things happening and available in downtown that would actually help us.

Re: THE ICE RINK COMETH

lbresident — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:25:07 -0000

You have consistently stated there is no hope for LB. So you come on these and other boards and say how everything LB has done is awful and all plans are awful. Obviously you have been hurt (maybe financially) in some way enough to continue posting about LB even though you no longer live here and apparently have no interest in seeing the place succeed. I can't ignore you because you constantly comment. I just wish you would post a positive suggestion once in awhile.