A Midnight cut off time for liquor sales has been quite effective elsewhere. It is a reasonable Time, Place and Manner restriction and Reasonable given the continuing Nuisance problems which have grown out of control to the average resident. The bar owners can simply start their party sooner.
If you simply balance the competing interests, the residents win hands down. Appraise the value of the homes within a one mile radius of the 4 out of control bars. You have Billions and Billions of dollars in Prime Real Estate here, and thousands of residents who can live just fine without the the most offensive bars. Wait until they get the chance to sign the Petitions under review.
On the other side, you have a liquor license, maybe worth less than 100K, a storefront lease, some fixtures and modest net annual cash flow. A bar such as these, does not cost 1/2 to 1/4th the value of one nice home in the area? Nuisance Businesses like a rowdy bar, serve at the pleasure of the residents, ultimately.
If you are smart, you do your homework, and you can set these guys up to fall like bowling pins quite often with the Law, and the Facts.
Keep collecting the Evidence, keep calling in Complaints, contact the ABC in writing,open an investigation, write City Hall and Police, catalog the failures to address the situation, and build your case patiently.
Several will continue to investigate, objectively, and talk to this growing list of affected Plaintiff's, and seek a more fair forum when appropriate.
If the Council, Staff and Law Enforcement cannot affect meaningful change, soon, we will probably have to ask the State and ultimately the Courts to intervene. Several Legal experts have reviewed this matter and we can probably take some interesting steps soon. Injunctions have issued upon matters involving smaller, continuing, civil disturbances such as these based upon unreasonable diminution of adjacent property values, widespread loss of Quiet Enjoyment rights, continuing damage to, and loss of personal property, or due to a marked increase in unlawful activity and related negative impacts.
Then there is the Municipal Negligence aspect for allowing the range of Nuisances, Crimes and related Torts to cause continuing harm to the adjacent community, and of course more.
There are plenty of upset resident Lawyers in the area that are talking, and a collaborative effort, combined with a small fund raising event, could easily come up with a joint filing effort against a few of the worst of the gang. It is pretty easy, and hanging a bunch of paper on a few of them might shift the balance of power a little?.
The blame for creating a nice fat Civil Suit and Demand for compensatory and punitive damages could churn along slowly, and painfully, for 4 or 5 years. This might finally shift the scrutiny to the actual and proximate cause of the problem, and better define the arguable, colorable, deriliction of a range of duties owed to the residents. It just may be about time to place the burden of attempting to justify this community chaos onto the Nuisance operators.
Why not? Because of an ''All business is good mindset?'' The desire for ''Free market capitalism at any and all cost''? Let us guess. ''We need to de-regulate in order to loose the animal spirits of business?'' How about..''Property Rights'' The Community knows better.
4 Bars have annoyed, harmed and imperiled thousands of residents for far too long say most? Maybe we should collectively teach them a lesson or two?
Maybe you should paper the adjacent residents with flyers, call a quiet meeting, open a web site, circulate questionaires about how often they are awakened, how much property they have had damaged since the 2006 shift in Policy, the unattended calls for service, initiate the Safe Streets Action, send the Complaints to the ABC, hire or Appoint Investigators, keep building this case, make a Civil Demand with Complaint Attached, file, and let the chips fall where they may?
This matter seems almost entirely Politically influenced due to a range of Material Conflicts of Interest, blatant favoritism and a manifest lack of concern for the residents. This is exactly what a neutral fact finder, or Judge, can help remedy.
Of course, a Recall Effort is inexpensive?
100 residents, pledging time, evidence collection, testimony and a few hundred bucks each, can really send a message through shrewd, tactical Legal moves? Other residents have been forced into such a corner around here. Let's continue to kick it all around. Playing nice has gotten us nowhere since 2006. It has been all about who you know and who you bl... This polarized, ever contentious, nonproductive, inequitable 'A' list versus the 'shit' list game has to end. Balance, fairness and justice needs to resurface soon, or many forsee serious problems.
The inmates have run the asylum for far too long say many. The quality of life has diminished demonstrably, and too many have suffered too much, for too few, too long we hear.
Neighborhoods First !! And when all else fails, Sue the Bastards !! It's FUN when they repeatedly beg for it and when they have it coming, in spades !!
The filing fees have been pledged, and several may draft a Pleading that several residents could probably assert, and possibly prevail upon while proceeding in Pro Se (as their own lawyer). Rumor has it that a candidate may just emerge doing such things, and others, for the average resident as well? Interesting...
Jeffrey
· 7 months ago
Brilliant. Let me know where and how I can contribute to this. As a 19 year resident of Belmont Shore I am at my ropes end with this.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
Mike Ruehle 1 hour ago: "Despite the fact City Hall gives the Business Association several hundred thousand dollars every year of taxpayer's dollars (the residents association gets zero)...,"
Are you referring to the parking revenue? I hope to God that there isn't any other financial okey-dokes going on! Please tell me that that's all the parasites are bleeding us for. I mean really does lorbeer, shneiter or rotondo's legends investor group need freebies?
The parking money MUST go back to the city. And rotondo's groups loan MUST be repaid in full. Time to recast the loan as a traditional amortized bank loan and get our money back.
dean, prevratil, rotondo, shneiter, lorbeer et al I'm sick and tired of our money being handed out, especially to arrogant pricks like these clowns.
dewrong is such a weak, embarrassing, phony, sorry excuse of a civic leader, banning Ruehle and another from the meeting. foster is going to sit back and let this happen?
Six decades in wrong beach and I've never felt worse about my city.
Mike Ruehle
· 7 months ago
The city assesses 2nd street businesses a tax. This money is then given to the Gene Rotondo led Business Association to manage as Mr. Rotondo sees fit. The BSBA budget is approximately $340,000 per year.
The Parking Commission budget is approximately $700,000 per year and mostly comes from parking meter revenue.
Between the Business Association and the Parking Commission, they have a combined $1.0 million per year of public money they spend on improving the Parking Commissioners commercial properties so they can raise their rents and on marketing to attract heavy drinkers from other communities.
The $500,000 load on the public’s money that Councilman DeLong sponsored for his buddy Gene Rotondo resulted in Mr. Rotondo buying the Acapulco Inn bar across the street two months later. Isn’t that a wonderful use of RDA money supposedly dedicated to improving poor areas in Long Beach? I’m willing to bet the $500,000 loan of public funds will be forgiven (not paid) by applying Legends sales tax revenue against the loan. That how Long Beach rolls.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
Wasn't the 500K supposed to be used on getting Legends going because rotondo and his investor group didn't have enough money to complete the rehab?
Mike Ruehle
· 7 months ago
That's what city staff and Councilman DeLong said. However, in reality it was used to purchase Alcapulco Inn our from under the previous owner.
Gene's Epitaph?
· 7 months ago
If the Sales Tax revenue is the justification for allowing too many bars to pour too much booze, and if the police are too overstreched elsewhere to partol the area as they used to, lets balance the tax benefit generated by these Bars against the cost of such nuisance businesses to the City, and the Residents.
The Legend's shooting last night, is event 3, in a few weeks, caused by a few bars who have grown out of control due to Negligent oversight and City financing, and sponsorship of and continuing,attractive nuisance, or sorts.
Add up the cost of the Officers required to respond last night, all of the investigation now required, the taxpayer probably paying for the emergency care, the subsequent proceedings, the Civil Suit that the bar patron will most certainly file, a potential Wrongful Death filing, the cost of defending that and other proposed suits , the probable award of damages, and where are we at, as a Municipality, and group of tax paying homeowners, expense wise? Several Million dollars? More?
How does the Bar Revenue justify the cost of business to our town, and neighborhoods?
So will this one drunken event, caused wholly by the Bars, harm the City's finances in an amount easily exceeding the revenue generated by such Nuisance Vendors, say, in a year? 2 years?
It is fiscally irresponsible to allow a few bars to strain our community, and our collective finances in so many ways? This Councilman needs to be taken off of this matter, he has shown no leadership, and is way too close to the Businessmen.
These 'friends' hold continuing Nuisance Permits, in essence, and the actual costs incurred, and the widespread burden of these uses clearly exceed to overall benefit to our General Fund, the adjacent community and our beloved town.
Last nights Legend's Shooting was telegraphed to anyone with half a brain, and it is time to finally reign old ''you residents can kiss my behind', because '' I have a lot of friends in City Hall'' Gene, and his similarly situated friends in.
Bring back a saloonkeeper like John Morris or his equivalent.? This chaos was never the course of business when he ran Legend's? He was a much better neighbor, much more responsible, and far less reckless ?
Prior Councilpersons would have proceeded against the Liquor Licenses here with alacrity.
Mean Gene and his croanies have screwed up Belmont Shore long enough. The BSRA residents rep's were right, they predicted this. The Legend's Gun Battle was the proof. Let's collectively vest some power back into the hands of the residents. Give half of the BSBA Board positions, and half of the revenue to the BSRA as the first order of business, so that they can look out for the people's rights a little bit better. That seems balanced, fair and equitable?
Or maybe the BSBA can fund the installation of bullet proof glass for the adjacent homes, and supply the residents with some anti ballistic vests?
The situation has become outrageous ! Time to lance the boil !
LB City Girl
· 7 months ago
Rumor does have it that John Morris is already planning a new place on Second.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
And here's my solution...take the parking meter money and turn it back over to the city for increased police presence. The foxes shouldn't be minding the henhouse anyways-only in wrong beach.
Now is the time, let's put a petition and legal action together demanding a 12 am closing time for all businesses on 2nd street. The bars have shown themselves to be a nuisance and the resultant drunks behavior criminal.
Next disband the corrupt Belmont Shore Parking Commission. 2nd street business only contributes $900,000 to the General Fund but gets at least $750,000 in parking meter and other kickbacks from the city. Plus they even make money off the Xmas parade charging community groups $400 to walk down our own public street. After policing costs it seems to me that 2nd street's contribution to our cities operating expenses is nil or negative. Our homes property taxes contribute many more times than what 2nd street bars bring in. Is the problem Pay to Play?
We can start boycotting the Grunnion Gazette for it's slanted reporting and 2nd street business. Why has Rotundo been president of the Belmont Shore Business Association for 10 years? Time for new leadership in the BSBA. Greed need to take a back seat to community spirit in this town. How about a bill of rights for residents in the city charter and a lobbist ordinance.
Dave Wielenga
· 7 months ago
Hello SunshineLB! This is Dave Wielenga. Could you please e-mail me at dave@thedistrictweekly.com, please?
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
By Charter, your area Parking Commission advises the Mayor and Council on the allocation of those parking meter funds. I would encourage you to ask them to make this recommendation.
Some have opined that they don't believe the Parking Commission, as currently configured, is sufficiently responsive to the needs of area residents and, so, would not likely make such a recommendation.
THIS IS PRECISELY WHY I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING, FOR SEVERAL MONTHS NOW, THAT THE PARKING COMMISSION BE RECONFIGURED AND BETTER BALANCED AND REFOCUSED!!!
Pardon my yelling, Mr. wrong, but it's more than a bit frustrating to be repeatedly accused of being callous or unconcerned or blind or pie-in-the-sky or nutty when all I'm doing is offering reasonable solutions.
If the Parking Commission isnt responsive, CHANGE it. It's your Parking Commission...take better control of it! It's your Council District...take better control of it. It's your City Council...take better control of it. It's your City budget...take better control of it. It's your City Government...take better control of it.
This is not pie in the sky or nutty...it's public policy and self governmental FACT. So please pardon my occasional civics lesson but I offer it because its clear that some clearly need to be reminded of who, ultimately, has the true power in this City...power to control government....power to control the City budget....power to elect representatives and power to REMOVE them if necessary...it is the PEOPLE, Mr. wrong, as represented by a majority of the electorate and constrained only by applicable law.
Your proposed solution is a good one. But we cant wave a magic wand and make it happen. I've offered what I believe to be reasonable suggestions on how we CAN make it happen...so how about it?
sunshinelb
· 7 months ago
Earth to Greet. Are you so out of it that you have no idea what is going on. A number of residents have filed formal Brown Act violatons complaints with the city against the BS parking commission. A number of residents have file formal conflict of interest complaints with the city against the BS parking commission. Bill Lorbeer a Parking Commission member is telling people that he does not consider the parking meter money public money. Mike Ruehle president of the Belmont Shore Residents Association has contacted the LA County District Attorneys office and has requested legal action to be taken to correct the situation.
TDW published an article on the current chair of the BS parking commission chair, Kurt Schneiter "The Seven Nasty Things Commissioner Kurt Schneiter wrote to a community Activist" June 2008, http://thedistrictweekly.com/2008/daily/writing.... What did Mayor Foster do after Schneiter behaved this way?-he reappointed the guy even after scores of us showed up at city hall to object. Now Schneiter is trying to misuse his authority to get valet parking in front of his business property over the objections of both residents and other business owners.
Greet I will have no respect for you until you show up at City Hall with the rest of us losers demanding something be done about the situation. Your statement "we CAN make it happen", does that include you? OK put up or shut up, I will be watching the next council meeting to see what you do.
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
sunshinelb: You're recounting challenges that are not insurmountable. You're intimating that the only means through which people can take action or make a difference is if they do so in the way YOU deem acceptable. You argue for your limitations and those of others and yet criticise me for not contributing to a solution. I do not choose to speak before the Council and the Mayor because I do not believe that to be the most effective means by which to communicate with them. You and others have been trying this method of "demanding something be done" for some time now...how's that been working for you so far? I neither seek nor require your respect. If you desire to withhold your respect, knowing so little about me and what I may or may not have accomplished for and with this city over many years then by all means do so.
sunshinelb
· 7 months ago
Hey wrongbeach John..."greet you are the only one here who doesn't acknowledge how ridiculous in-context your comments are". Maybe the great windy Greet is AFRAID to appear before the City Council to talk about the parking commission and Belmont Shore's barfly problem. As we all know, limiting a Greet speech to 3 minutes would really be a challenge.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
Well, it would be difficult too because greet would want to sit on chief batt's lap for his 3 minutes.
Mike Ruehle
· 7 months ago
Greet, bottom line, nobody pays attention to you or what you say anymore. At one time we thought you were an objective opinion. No more. Enough time wasted discussing your BS. Continue with your multiple page civics lessons. We just page down.
Mike Ruehle
· 7 months ago
The Belmont Shore Parking Commission is chartered as an ADVISORY Commission only. However, I was told During the February Parking Commission meeting by Commission liaison John Wills the Parking Commission can spend their money however they wish as long as any one project does not exceed $100,000. According to Mr. Wills, anything over $100,000 must be approved by City Council.
This is a sham for a couple of reasons. First of all, why does the Parking Commission have ANY spending authority if they are chartered as only as an ADVISORY Commission? Second, The Parking Commission gets around this $100,000 restriction by breaking specific projects up into small pieces (surveys, engineering, plan check, construction, etc.) to not exceed the $100,000 limit and be forced to go before City Council.
In my opinion, the $700,000 per year of parking revenue money this Commission spends for the betterment and self interest of the Parking Commissioner’s businesses could be better spent hiring several additional police officers to monitor and control the rowdy bar patrons of the businesses owned by these same Commissioners.
Mr. Greet’s Pollyanna civics lessons about the people having the power to remove their elected representatives may be correct. However, it means nothing to the elected representatives like Councilman DeLong who care little for my neighborhood.
LB City Girl
· 7 months ago
That's a lot of money to spend "any way you wish!"
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
What a scam-only in wrong beach.
I bet the chamber unionboss is green with envy. That's a better scam than when he fleeced the city annually of the proceeds from a civic event (state of the city dinner/speech). I have to give foster credit for yanking gordons hands out of the city till.
I for one am sure happy that foster's measure didn't pass. He'd probably make angel mozillo look clean as a whistle after he got through with his "trust me with the money" shenanigans.
greet you are the only one here who doesn't acknowledge how ridiculous in-context your comments are.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
"Otherwise, the neighbors are going to keep complaining, and eventually it’s going to come down on everybody".
How come the existing arrogant bar owners can't figure that one out? Really, who the f... do they think they are? Why go out of your way to piss off the residents? And why does the city turn a deaf ear, especially the councilman? What an all-around loser he is! Unbelievable!
In this case I guess it takes smart businesspeople like the new owners of PJ's and the Station to know how to take care of business properly. Really a no-brainer; except in wrong beach.
greet if the owners handle the problems we won't need to rely on you, so you can stay in the ELB station writing your reports and playing chief on the internet.
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
Mr. wrong: You just keep dishing up the insults. That'll get a lot accomplished.
Mike Ruehle
· 7 months ago
At 7:00 AM, there were several TV news channels set up near Legends bar close to where the officer involved shooting took place. As expected, Business Association President and Legends bar owner Gene Rotondo downplayed the incident to the press. He claimed Belmont Shore to be a quiet community with few issues. No mention was made of this District Weekly article or the number of videos surfacing of increasingly violent late night public disturbances occurring in the community from over served bar patrons that don’t live in our community.
I took the liberty of giving several of the news services a copy of the District Weekly with the page turned to this article. They appeared interested that there may be two sides to Mr. Rotondo’s story. While discussing this with the news media, I was hounded, name called, cussed at and continually interrupted by Business Association Vice President Dave Shlemmer, who with another Business Association advocate, tried to prevent my explanation of the other side of Mr. Rotondo’s false portrayal.
Mike Ruehle
· 7 months ago
Belmont Shore residents have been complaining to the police, Councilman DeLong and the Mayor for over a year about the increasing problems stemming from over served bar patrons of the businesses owned by Councilman DeLong’s friends. Each time, issues were downplayed and residents ignored. As a result, residents have been forced to resort to videotape and youtube to make them selves heard.
Isn’t it ironic the 2nd Street Police Officer involved shooting occurred the same day this article was published?
Isn’t it ironic that two of the three recent public disturbance youtube videos posted on the District Weekly web site and below were recorded 200 feet from where the body lay after last night’s Police Officer involved shooting?
Isn’t it ironic the shooting occurred within 100 feet of Legends Bar which is the source of numerous resident complaints? This is the same Legends bar that is owned by Gene Rotondo, the President of the Business Association. The commercial property owner and Mr. Rotondo’s landlord is Bill Lorbeer, Vice Chairman of the Parking Commission.
Isn’t it ironic that Legends bar, whose owner opposes additional policing, was one of five 2nd street businesses burglarized over the past couple weeks because the bad guys know there is only one late night police officer in beat 10, a huge area stretching from Belmont Shore to Seal Beach and encompassing over 30 bars.
Belmont Shore has now experienced a murder, a throat slashing and an Officer involved shooting over the last 9 months. When residents pleaded for help from the Police Department at the last Belmont Shore Residents Association meeting held on May 14, 2009, the officer told us to quote him when he TWICE said, “YOUR ARE NOT GOING TO GET IT.” What else needs to happen before the Councilman and Police consider staffing more police in Belmont Shore? Must we wait until April to vote out Councilman DeLong before steps are taken to protect our neighborhood?
LB City Girl
· 7 months ago
It's a little too ironic. Anyone get any good footage to post to youtube?
wanderlust
· 7 months ago
apparently, this is what more police presence looks like in BS:
Belmont Shore/2nd St. Officer-Involved Shooting Minutes After Midnight Today (Thurs. May 28)
I live off of 2nd & Grand. I may be far away from the 2nd St bars, but I still experience the late night revelers on their way home. Whether they're walking, on skateboards or bikes, or even in cars, these folks are rude and disruptive.
I've witnessed people get out of their cars to pee in front of my building, yell at their friends as they walk down the street and even cabs pulling over so passengers can throw-up out front. In addition, I have neighbors who honk at all hours to indicate they've arrive home--the rest of the residents be damned. We're all a victim of these insensitive partiers.
If I call the police about the noise and disruptions, and even suspicious activity, generally a unit doesn't come. Local police do not have time for us. The result of my calls: "We don't have an officer available. There were shootings in North Long Beach tonight." Ok, so where are the cops patrolling the coast? Do we not have units dedicated to Belmont Shore & Belmont Heights?
I've noticed many cops on 2nd at midnight. But where are they at 2am when all the drunks are leaving the bars? 2nd Street is void of police at this critical time.
I'm so fed up with all the noise and inconsiderate folks, along with the lack of law enforcement, that after 6 years it's finally gotten to the point that I've started researching other places to live.
Kudos to those folks making recordings and posting these idiotic people on YouTube.
howardx
· 7 months ago
if you have a youtube account you can subscribe to the belmont shore channel and get an email everytime a new video goes up. i did!
John Forstrom
· 7 months ago
The issues outlined in the quote below were conveyed recently to the Belmont Shore Residents Association by several residents. They are no longer my ongoing personal experience.
The majority of issues around the Belmont Station have almost been alleviated since their entertainment license conditions were put in place in 2007. I have used that experience to help other residents - including those on Granada Ave. who now hope that the conditions on Panama Joe's entertainment license will have the same impact.
In my opinion, the bar conditions are only part of the equation in keeping a healthy balance between a vibrant nightlife (which the majority of my neighbors enjoy) and an area that can at times be out of control. I have personally expressed my concerns to our councilmember and the LBPD about the lack of police presence between 1:30am and 3am Thurs, Fri and Sat nights.
A single patrol car - which can be called out of Belmont Shore at any time is not sufficient to police this area when it is flooded by out of town bar patrons on the weekend. This same concern has also been expressed to me by 2nd St. business owners whose storefronts are subject to ongoing acts of vandalism.
The bar conditions were a good start. Now further cooperation with the city and police to help alleviate reoccurring problems is the next logical step. If these videos posted by residents speed up that process - then I view them as having a positive impact.
.....says John Forstrom, 38, ***frustrated by the noise, vandalism, violence and occasional creepiness he’s had to live with since purchasing a house on Glendora Avenue with his newlywed wife in August 2006.***
wanderlust
· 7 months ago
Or we could just get rid of the meatheads, and have some real culture down on 2nd street. Give the meatheads some music to listen to, and some art to look at. Maybe the caveman will evolve.
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
I believe true cooperation and respectful and open communication between all of the stakeholders along and near 2nd Street to be the best recipe for seeking and finding an acceptable medium for all concerned.
Businesses should feel free to ply their respective trades in a lawful manner and earn profits. Residents have a right to a peaceful and pleasant environment in which to live and raise their families. Visitors should feel welcome but only so long as they conduct themselves in a civil and lawful manner.
Balancing all of these interests in such a relatively small area of our city can be a challenge, certainly, but by no means need it be an insurmountable one.
While City government *can* serve as a facilitator for solutions, all solutions cannot, and in any case *should* not, come from City government alone. Constitutional constraints, severely limited resources and a more global (citywide) perspective and responsibility all combine to properly limit the effectiveness of government-centric solutions to these challenges.
To the extent that the BSRA and the BSBA each represent, if not all, then at least a significant segment of, their respective constituencies, they are in a unique position to work closely with City government and other stakeholders to seek and find solutions that all can learn to at least live with, if not all be fully content with.
Properly configured, re-named and re-focused (equally balanced with resident and business representatives), the Belmont Shore Parking Commission would be in a perfect position to create some much needed City government-sponsored common ground upon both groups could stand and from which they could begin to better cooperate one with the other.
The methods currently being employed by PJ's and Belmont Station, as described here, offer some hope that good cooperation can be achieved. May area residents and businesses achieve still more of the same in the future.
One thing seems abundantly clear: the name calling, finger-pointing, unfounded allegations and misinformative approach relied upon by some in the area just is not working...in fact it's decidedly counter-productive.
Wherever a community of diverse interests and priorities exists, "calm and productive" will win out over "insulting and confrontational" every time...all some in the area need do is try to employ a little more of the former and a lot less of the latter.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
Yet another arrogant condescending civics expulsion from professor chief greet, the human "santa ana" windbag.
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
Who is truly the more arrogant and condescending I wonder...the one who expresses himself with courtesy, respect, intelligence and circumspection...or the one that routinely criticises and insults him for doing so?
Perhaps if you would at least *attempt* to offer a cogent rebuttal to my comments, Mr. wrong, rather than simply insulting me for offering them and then offer some reasonable alternatives of your own, your comments might prove more constructive and solution-oriented.
But perhaps being constructive and solution-oriented is not your goal after all.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
Honestly John I do have admire your efforts here (and the highest respect that you are a Police Officer) but it's clear that you're programmed for slanted statements and opinions flavored with self-interest pandering and a touch of nuttiness. You either sorely lack in comprehension or you don't really read thoroughly.
Most people don't change their bad behavior until they get a good hard kick in the ass.
Your silly "can't we all get along" goes beyond the pale. Let's take the ports for example. They were merrily fouling the air until they got their asses kicked and couldn't expand. Now you'd think they invented the green movement.
The BSBA and the BS Parking Commission DO work closely with the city and the phony councilman, to their great self-benefit, so why do they need to involve the lowly residents? You of all people should see the reality of situations and knock off your pie-in-the-sky sermons.
I know some people go pretty far with certain claims about the ethics etc of city officials. Let's not forget the recent disgusting antics with tom dean, and issues in South Gate, Maywood, Vernon, Orange County and other nearby cities, along with our phony governor and lame legislature. Not alot of confidence in government these days, for valid reasons.
Big Bob, the off-duty Cop at Big Johns 40 years ago, walked a beat on the Pike for years. He had a perpetual cigar and scowl. He was a huge, mean, ugly SOB, and if you crossed the line with him you knew it right away, but if you were ok then never a problem. If he had been present when the videotaped BS fight took place he would have taken those 4-5 dirtbags down with pleasure; he'd have paid to do it.
The LBPD Cops I know, after seeing the last "fight" video on youtube, would probably want to immediately drive down to Legends to kick some lawbreaking dirtbag's asses, they'd be so enraged. We know how the Sheriff's would feel.
Didn't seem to bother you too much since you milk-toastedly explained all the non-responses and probable inattention away as a manpower/priority issue. Didn't you feel like taking those dirtbags down and hauling them downtown?
I have a feeling Bob would throw up if he read your sad excuses. Too bad if you don't like me calling you on your bullshit too.
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
Mr. wrong: Having worked in law enforcement as long I have I could not possibly claim to be unbiased and remain fully honest. Being human, of course I am pre-disposed to support my profession and my colleagues within it. In that I am no different from anyone else. But my bias and pre-disposition are at once hard earned and well-deserved.
But pre-disposition is not blindness and bias is not acceptance of poor standards of conduct or of shoddy work performance. I do not excuse poor policework and I do not tolerate the inept, either in my field or any other.
I maintain very high standards for myself and for the Team of officers I am honored to lead. I'll leave the question of the quality of my own work and leadership to those best qualified to assess it...my supervisors and those I am privileged to supervise.
But if asking area stakeholders to be more civil and coooperative with one another is "pie in the sky", so be it. If asking civic groups like BSRA and BSBA to work more constructively with one another and more closely with local government is "nutty" then "nutty" I suppose I will have to remain.
The sad fact is that they don't make cops like "Big Bob" anymore. The last vestiges of those (if you'll pardon the vernacular) "kick-ass-and-take-names" sorts of cops were still around when I came on over 20 years ago but they quickly faded away and, thanks to our now hyper-litigous and Internal Affairs Complaint-predisposed society, were never replaced.
Although I and my classmates were fortunate enough to be trained in the ways of the "old school", those old school methods just cannot be employed any longer. The methods "Big Bob" applied "back then" would have seen him routinely and severely disciplined, suspended and eventually fired today.
So the cops of today have become at once less of a blunt instrument of public policy and more of a precise and far more creative one. You may not find this preferable, Mr. wrong, but it is a transformation that society has asked and expected of us and so it has occurred. Cops today are far more highly educated and far less likely to become involved in uses of force than we once were. We have been asked to resolve challenges differently from the manner in which we once did and so we do so.
We still "take care of business" every single time that proves necessary (LBPD enjoys a very well-earned reputation in the national law enforcement community for this ability), but we can only do so much with the resources and the funds we are given, the methods of operation were are expected to employ and the guidelines we are now required to scrupulously adhere to.
Many cops and Deputies (myself included) may very well "want" to operate differently than we sometimes do but the times when we could do what we "want" without any regard to established law, policy or procedure have long since passed.
The manner in which we work now hasn't changed out of any particular desire to do so on our part...society has required it of us. Since our authority and mandate comes from that society...we are required to comply and so we have.
Videos like those being posted are nothing new for me, Mr. wrong. So please excuse me if I seem less outraged than some on this site. We see such nonsense every single night throughout this fine city. Bar fights and late night loud and rude behavior are bad and should be dealt with well and effectively, but there are many, many other things far worse...trust me...and we see and deal with those things too...every single day and night.
But the issues you and others are experiencing along 2nd Street are very important to you and so they must also be very important to us.
While I have no personal knowledge of this, I suspect that you may well be seeing some increased police presence along 2nd Street in the coming . In this I could be wrong. The apparent increase in nonsense in the area and the publicity this site and other news sources have brought to bear will have served to raise the awareness level somewhat...of all concerned.
You and others have my professional assurance as a Sergeant of Police that what I can do, within the law and established policy and procedure, I will.
howardx
· 7 months ago
"Having worked in law enforcement as long I have I could not possibly claim to be unbiased and remain fully honest. Being human, of course I am pre-disposed to support my profession and my colleagues within it."
finally. so what was the big problem with me saying the same thing? which at the time, you denied.
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
My memory is admittedly not the best...when did you say what I said and when did I deny it?
Jim McCabe
· 7 months ago
Just back from a long trip. A don't agree with Mr. Greet on a number of things, but truly the use of "windbag" just degrades the whole civic process to yelling and screeming. Respectfully, don't do that.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
Mr. McCabe, Just don't chastise me when I (righteously) trash scum like randy gordon or certain others, because if you do I will (your words) really degrade the civic process in my response to you.
I haven't checked, but have you policed every thread for "violations", or are you just looking out for greet?
greet you'll be blue and ice-cold before you ever get an apology from me.
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
Mr. wrong: I neither request nor require your apologies.
By all means do continue to flail away ineffectively at me if you so desire. It appears to help you to feel better about yourself and your positions to offer personal insult rather than cogent and well-reasoned argument.
As mentioned immediately below, you harm me not at all by insulting me but I believe you do your own arguments grave injury.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
greet you do your own "well-reasoned arguments" grave damage. At least I speak for myself only.
I'd rather be a "poor player" than a "poor polisher".
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
Thank you, Mr. wrong. With your own words you make my point for me.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
If you haven't noticed, your "points" do not seem to carry much weight here, due to you posting nonsense like the sorry excuses for the lack of police presence in BS, endless drivel about how things should in LB, and your lbpost chamber sack-polishing. I almost feel embarrassed for you sometimes. If you weren't a police officer I'd want to put you on "ignore".
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
Mr. wrong: I do not seek "weight", only reasonable, intelligent and intellectually honest discourse.
I do not offer "excuses". I simply attempt to explain, as best as I am able, a little bit about what we do, how we do it and why.
I am, indeed, privileged to have earned my own column at LBPOST.com and I greatly appreciate your mentioning it. All readers and commenters are most welcome as long as they prove willing check their insults, their hyperbole and their intellectual dishonesty at the door.
You seem like a pretty intelligent fellow. Stop on by. Stripped of all of the silliness you sometimes dish out here, you and I might actually be able to accomplish a reasonable and constructive dialog!
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
Not interested in the least...why waste time on a silly shill who can't see he's the only one laughing.
I feel more priveleged to post here than I ever would be at that phony chamber shit-sheet. Their scheme obviously is a bit too intricate for you to grasp.
Hey, I hear the chamber has a really good wal-mart seminar coming up. Would you mind getting back with us on the details?
This can wait until after you stop running in circles and happily lifting you leg and peeing, from mccabe stroking your savaged self-esteem.
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
Mr. wrong and Mr. x: With each subsequent post you prove my own assertions more and more.
Thanks for continuing to make my case for me.
howardx
· 7 months ago
earth to greet no one knows what your assertions are, perhaps burying them in your ever more pedantic posts is a mistake.
howardx
· 7 months ago
greet's not used to EARNING respect, he's used to the kind carrying a gun and a badge gets you.
John_Greet
· 7 months ago
Mr. McCabe: You are most kind and I thank you. Even in the midst of our disagreements, you always provide a standard of civil and intelligent discourse that all of us, myself included, could better aspire toward.
But pray let these "poor players" strut and fret, good Sir, for they harm me not at all. Their various causes and positions, however, suffer greatly indeed.
Laurence B. Goodhue
· 7 months ago
My sense is the point has been reached that we should set midnight as the last call for any beer, liquor, wine sales in Long Beach.rar,restaurant,liquor store or otherwise-with a 12:30AM exit time.
A few drinks more is not going to make the less attractive,more attractive to the obviously, equally-or even more so-unattractive looser the likes of which have been featured on the recent You Tube videos.
This will allow LBPD to husband and deploy its depleting resources somewhat better.
Mike Ruehle
· 7 months ago
At the residents’ request, Councilman DeLong has set up a meeting next week with residents living behind Legends bar who have repeatedly voiced concerns about the late night disturbances they are constantly subjected to. Councilman DeLong’s condition for the meeting was that neither the Belmont Shore Residents Association President (me) nor one other resident advocate who lives on Covina Avenue be allowed to attend the meeting. Banning me has been Councilman DeLong’s standard stipulation before agreeing to attend any meeting with residents. He did his best but couldn't get me voted out. So now he just bans me.
This isn’t the first time Councilman DeLong has met with this same group of residents about this issue. I can’t wait to find out how he will spin the evidence from the multiple videos and the shooting last night.
wrongbeachJohn
· 7 months ago
Mike, time to call or email every single news source that you can and advise them of what's going on in the shore, direct them to this site, and inform them that you are being banned from participation. I think the neighbors should refuse to meet without you there. dewrongs just going to stroke them anyways. If you plan a protest I know people who will be eager to attend. And so will the media-they'll have a field day. greet could you please show up wearing your beanie and cecil propellor cap and provide security for us, please?
howardx
· 7 months ago
i agree mike, make some noise. this may be just the time for a well publicized citizens protest.
howardx
· 7 months ago
have the residents who attend record the meeting.
Pat
· 7 months ago
Is it even legal to ban someone from a public meeting or event? As I don't live on Covina, could I not attend?
And please tell me it'll be at Legends or another establishment along 2nd St
Mike Ruehle
· 7 months ago
Banning people who don't agree with them is how the Long Beach power elite conduct business. Legends owner and Business Association President Gene Rotondo has banned me (Belmont Shore Resident’s Association president) from both his Legends bar and from attending Belmont Shore Business Association meetings. Everyone else from the public is allowed to attend except me because he claims my reporting to residents is not accurate. Quite the contrary, he just doesn't like what I have to say about how his business is conducted in my neighborhood.
Despite the fact City Hall gives the Business Association several hundred thousand dollars every year of taxpayer's dollars (the residents association gets zero), City Hall and Councilman DeLong allow Mr. Rotondo to ban whom ever he wants and necessarily agree with his way of thinking. According to the city attorney, it is acceptable to ban me from observing how taxpayers dollars are spent.
jjfad
· 7 months ago
I'm so happy to hear that some of the owners understand that it is better for business if they work with the community. And I don't know any business model where police activity figures in positively.
Mike Ruehle
· 7 months ago
Hello Beach Bob,
There are over 260 businesses in Belmont Shore. 54 of them have alcohol licenses. Approximately 10 of those businesses serving alcohol are open after 11:00 PM. Only a handful of those businesses serving alcohol after 11:00 pm are a problem and strive to attract a problem clientele. One solution might be to increase the business license fee by $20,000 per year for businesses serving alcohol after 11:00 PM and use the proceeds to pay for an additional cop dedicated to bar closing time in Belmont Shore.
90% of the bar patron public disturbances occur after 11:00 pm. If businesses don’t want to pay the fee, then don’t serve alcohol. If they want to serve alcohol after 11:00 PM, then they need to pay for the additional support needed to police their patrons.
lbFamily
· 7 months ago
I moments like this, I like to apply jetBlue airPort logic.
"You people knew there were bars on 2nd Street when you bought your houses, so deal with the noise and other associated problems. You have no right to complain. You have no right to try and maintain the quality of your neighborhood."
rino2
· 7 months ago
Most of the comments on this incident are based on the out of control perp to have been drinking at Legends. But, I think Mr Rotunda said that he had not gone in Legends. I have not read anything more about the perp except that he is from Anaheim and is 25 years old. Does anyone know anything more?
lbcsprints
· 7 months ago
I hope all the bars on 2nd street close down forever! It seems to me that Belmont shore turned into a real poop hole years ago and all this new crying is a little late. Ya think! Good luck trying to stop all the BRO'S and there HO'S from being complete retards it's in there blood to be stupid. Pretty much everyone go's to CSULB to get smart and after go's to second street to get stupid. I'm glad I don't live there anymore:)
Meatpost
· 1 week ago
I used to love going to Panama Joe's, until it changed ownership. Now they have a manager by the name of "Fabius Risk" running the cantina. He definitely runs a shady business and should not be trusted running anyone's business. What a huge liability Fabius is for Panama Joe's or Sharkeez or whatever they are going to call themselves. Recently I organized a large group to celebrate the holidays, we were having a great time until a bouncer came up to me and said I was wavering when I walked and that I had to leave. He said he was sorry that he didn't think that I was drunk- but his manager ordered him to kick me out. In other words he kicked me and my party out because the line outside the bar was getting long and wanted to make room for new customers. On top of that, they tried to charge me an extra $100 on my bill by adding 10 patron shots. I don't even drink tequilla, but they were persistent that they were still gonna charge me the extra $100. So finally we went to look at the video surveillance to prove to them it wasn't me who ordered the shots. After they saw the video they finally took off the $100 worth of Patron shots--- Ridiculous place.. I miss the old Panama Joe's. I will never promote Panama Joes again by organizing a VIP Happy Hour in which I brought over 25 of my friends...... What a mistake!!! Long Beach is no place for a business like Sharkeez or PJ's or whatever they are planning to call it!!!! Don't support them if you care about 2nd St.
All Comments
If you simply balance the competing interests, the residents win hands down. Appraise the value of the homes within a one mile radius of the 4 out of control bars. You have Billions and Billions of dollars in Prime Real Estate here, and thousands of residents who can live just fine without the the most offensive bars. Wait until they get the chance to sign the Petitions under review.
On the other side, you have a liquor license, maybe worth less than 100K, a storefront lease, some fixtures and modest net annual cash flow. A bar such as these, does not cost 1/2 to 1/4th the value of one nice home in the area? Nuisance Businesses like a rowdy bar, serve at the pleasure of the residents, ultimately.
If you are smart, you do your homework, and you can set these guys up to fall like bowling pins quite often with the Law, and the Facts.
Keep collecting the Evidence, keep calling in Complaints, contact the ABC in writing,open an investigation, write City Hall and Police, catalog the failures to address the situation, and build your case patiently.
Several will continue to investigate, objectively, and talk to this growing list of affected Plaintiff's, and seek a more fair forum when appropriate.
If the Council, Staff and Law Enforcement cannot affect meaningful change, soon, we will probably have to ask the State and ultimately the Courts to intervene. Several Legal experts have reviewed this matter and we can probably take some interesting steps soon. Injunctions have issued upon matters involving smaller, continuing, civil disturbances such as these based upon unreasonable diminution of adjacent property values, widespread loss of Quiet Enjoyment rights, continuing damage to, and loss of personal property, or due to a marked increase in unlawful activity and related negative impacts.
Then there is the Municipal Negligence aspect for allowing the range of Nuisances, Crimes and related Torts to cause continuing harm to the adjacent community, and of course more.
There are plenty of upset resident Lawyers in the area that are talking, and a collaborative effort, combined with a small fund raising event, could easily come up with a joint filing effort against a few of the worst of the gang. It is pretty easy, and hanging a bunch of paper on a few of them might shift the balance of power a little?.
The blame for creating a nice fat Civil Suit and Demand for compensatory and punitive damages could churn along slowly, and painfully, for 4 or 5 years. This might finally shift the scrutiny to the actual and proximate cause of the problem, and better define the arguable, colorable, deriliction of a range of duties owed to the residents. It just may be about time to place the burden of attempting to justify this community chaos onto the Nuisance operators.
Why not? Because of an ''All business is good mindset?'' The desire for ''Free market capitalism at any and all cost''? Let us guess. ''We need to de-regulate in order to loose the animal spirits of business?'' How about..''Property Rights'' The Community knows better.
4 Bars have annoyed, harmed and imperiled thousands of residents for far too long say most? Maybe we should collectively teach them a lesson or two?
Maybe you should paper the adjacent residents with flyers, call a quiet meeting, open a web site, circulate questionaires about how often they are awakened, how much property they have had damaged since the 2006 shift in Policy, the unattended calls for service, initiate the Safe Streets Action, send the Complaints to the ABC, hire or Appoint Investigators, keep building this case, make a Civil Demand with Complaint Attached, file, and let the chips fall where they may?
This matter seems almost entirely Politically influenced due to a range of Material Conflicts of Interest, blatant favoritism and a manifest lack of concern for the residents. This is exactly what a neutral fact finder, or Judge, can help remedy.
Of course, a Recall Effort is inexpensive?
100 residents, pledging time, evidence collection, testimony and a few hundred bucks each, can really send a message through shrewd, tactical Legal moves? Other residents have been forced into such a corner around here. Let's continue to kick it all around. Playing nice has gotten us nowhere since 2006. It has been all about who you know and who you bl... This polarized, ever contentious, nonproductive, inequitable 'A' list versus the 'shit' list game has to end. Balance, fairness and justice needs to resurface soon, or many forsee serious problems.
The inmates have run the asylum for far too long say many. The quality of life has diminished demonstrably, and too many have suffered too much, for too few, too long we hear.
Neighborhoods First !! And when all else fails, Sue the Bastards !! It's FUN when they repeatedly beg for it and when they have it coming, in spades !!
The filing fees have been pledged, and several may draft a Pleading that several residents could probably assert, and possibly prevail upon while proceeding in Pro Se (as their own lawyer). Rumor has it that a candidate may just emerge doing such things, and others, for the average resident as well? Interesting...
"Despite the fact City Hall gives the Business Association several hundred thousand dollars every year of taxpayer's dollars (the residents association gets zero)...,"
Are you referring to the parking revenue? I hope to God that there isn't any other financial okey-dokes going on! Please tell me that that's all the parasites are bleeding us for. I mean really does lorbeer, shneiter or rotondo's legends investor group need freebies?
The parking money MUST go back to the city. And rotondo's groups loan MUST be repaid in full. Time to recast the loan as a traditional amortized bank loan and get our money back.
dean, prevratil, rotondo, shneiter, lorbeer et al I'm sick and tired of our money being handed out, especially to arrogant pricks like these clowns.
dewrong is such a weak, embarrassing, phony, sorry excuse of a civic leader, banning Ruehle and another from the meeting. foster is going to sit back and let this happen?
Six decades in wrong beach and I've never felt worse about my city.
The Parking Commission budget is approximately $700,000 per year and mostly comes from parking meter revenue.
Between the Business Association and the Parking Commission, they have a combined $1.0 million per year of public money they spend on improving the Parking Commissioners commercial properties so they can raise their rents and on marketing to attract heavy drinkers from other communities.
The $500,000 load on the public’s money that Councilman DeLong sponsored for his buddy Gene Rotondo resulted in Mr. Rotondo buying the Acapulco Inn bar across the street two months later. Isn’t that a wonderful use of RDA money supposedly dedicated to improving poor areas in Long Beach? I’m willing to bet the $500,000 loan of public funds will be forgiven (not paid) by applying Legends sales tax revenue against the loan. That how Long Beach rolls.
The Legend's shooting last night, is event 3, in a few weeks, caused by a few bars who have grown out of control due to Negligent oversight and City financing, and sponsorship of and continuing,attractive nuisance, or sorts.
Add up the cost of the Officers required to respond last night, all of the investigation now required, the taxpayer probably paying for the emergency care, the subsequent proceedings, the Civil Suit that the bar patron will most certainly file, a potential Wrongful Death filing, the cost of defending that and other proposed suits , the probable award of damages, and where are we at, as a Municipality, and group of tax paying homeowners, expense wise? Several Million dollars? More?
How does the Bar Revenue justify the cost of business to our town, and neighborhoods?
So will this one drunken event, caused wholly by the Bars, harm the City's finances in an amount easily exceeding the revenue generated by such Nuisance Vendors, say, in a year? 2 years?
It is fiscally irresponsible to allow a few bars to strain our community, and our collective finances in so many ways? This Councilman needs to be taken off of this matter, he has shown no leadership, and is way too close to the Businessmen.
These 'friends' hold continuing Nuisance Permits, in essence, and the actual costs incurred, and the widespread burden of these uses clearly exceed to overall benefit to our General Fund, the adjacent community and our beloved town.
Last nights Legend's Shooting was telegraphed to anyone with half a brain, and it is time to finally reign old ''you residents can kiss my behind', because '' I have a lot of friends in City Hall'' Gene, and his similarly situated friends in.
Bring back a saloonkeeper like John Morris or his equivalent.? This chaos was never the course of business when he ran Legend's? He was a much better neighbor, much more responsible, and far less reckless ?
Prior Councilpersons would have proceeded against the Liquor Licenses here with alacrity.
Mean Gene and his croanies have screwed up Belmont Shore long enough. The BSRA residents rep's were right, they predicted this. The Legend's Gun Battle was the proof. Let's collectively vest some power back into the hands of the residents. Give half of the BSBA Board positions, and half of the revenue to the BSRA as the first order of business, so that they can look out for the people's rights a little bit better. That seems balanced, fair and equitable?
Or maybe the BSBA can fund the installation of bullet proof glass for the adjacent homes, and supply the residents with some anti ballistic vests?
The situation has become outrageous ! Time to lance the boil !
Now is the time, let's put a petition and legal action together demanding a 12 am closing time for all businesses on 2nd street. The bars have shown themselves to be a nuisance and the resultant drunks behavior criminal.
Next disband the corrupt Belmont Shore Parking Commission.
2nd street business only contributes $900,000 to the General Fund but gets at least $750,000 in parking meter and other kickbacks from the city. Plus they even make money off the Xmas parade charging community groups $400 to walk down our own public street. After policing costs it seems to me that 2nd street's contribution to our cities operating expenses is nil or negative. Our homes property taxes contribute many more times than what 2nd street bars bring in. Is the problem Pay to Play?
We can start boycotting the Grunnion Gazette for it's slanted reporting and 2nd street business. Why has Rotundo been president of the Belmont Shore Business Association for 10 years? Time for new leadership in the BSBA. Greed need to take a back seat to community spirit in this town. How about a bill of rights for residents in the city charter and a lobbist ordinance.
Some have opined that they don't believe the Parking Commission, as currently configured, is sufficiently responsive to the needs of area residents and, so, would not likely make such a recommendation.
THIS IS PRECISELY WHY I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING, FOR SEVERAL MONTHS NOW, THAT THE PARKING COMMISSION BE RECONFIGURED AND BETTER BALANCED AND REFOCUSED!!!
Pardon my yelling, Mr. wrong, but it's more than a bit frustrating to be repeatedly accused of being callous or unconcerned or blind or pie-in-the-sky or nutty when all I'm doing is offering reasonable solutions.
If the Parking Commission isnt responsive, CHANGE it. It's your Parking Commission...take better control of it! It's your Council District...take better control of it. It's your City Council...take better control of it. It's your City budget...take better control of it. It's your City Government...take better control of it.
This is not pie in the sky or nutty...it's public policy and self governmental FACT. So please pardon my occasional civics lesson but I offer it because its clear that some clearly need to be reminded of who, ultimately, has the true power in this City...power to control government....power to control the City budget....power to elect representatives and power to REMOVE them if necessary...it is the PEOPLE, Mr. wrong, as represented by a majority of the electorate and constrained only by applicable law.
Your proposed solution is a good one. But we cant wave a magic wand and make it happen. I've offered what I believe to be reasonable suggestions on how we CAN make it happen...so how about it?
TDW published an article on the current chair of the BS parking commission chair, Kurt Schneiter "The Seven Nasty Things Commissioner Kurt Schneiter wrote to a community Activist" June 2008, http://thedistrictweekly.com/2008/daily/writing.... What did Mayor Foster do after Schneiter behaved this way?-he reappointed the guy even after scores of us showed up at city hall to object. Now Schneiter is trying to misuse his authority to get valet parking in front of his business property over the objections of both residents and other business owners.
Greet I will have no respect for you until you show up at City Hall with the rest of us losers demanding something be done about the situation. Your statement "we CAN make it happen", does that include you? OK put up or shut up, I will be watching the next council meeting to see what you do.
This is a sham for a couple of reasons. First of all, why does the Parking Commission have ANY spending authority if they are chartered as only as an ADVISORY Commission? Second, The Parking Commission gets around this $100,000 restriction by breaking specific projects up into small pieces (surveys, engineering, plan check, construction, etc.) to not exceed the $100,000 limit and be forced to go before City Council.
In my opinion, the $700,000 per year of parking revenue money this Commission spends for the betterment and self interest of the Parking Commissioner’s businesses could be better spent hiring several additional police officers to monitor and control the rowdy bar patrons of the businesses owned by these same Commissioners.
Mr. Greet’s Pollyanna civics lessons about the people having the power to remove their elected representatives may be correct. However, it means nothing to the elected representatives like Councilman DeLong who care little for my neighborhood.
I bet the chamber unionboss is green with envy. That's a better scam than when he fleeced the city annually of the proceeds from a civic event (state of the city dinner/speech). I have to give foster credit for yanking gordons hands out of the city till.
I for one am sure happy that foster's measure didn't pass. He'd probably make angel mozillo look clean as a whistle after he got through with his "trust me with the money" shenanigans.
greet you are the only one here who doesn't acknowledge how ridiculous in-context your comments are.
How come the existing arrogant bar owners can't figure that one out? Really, who the f... do they think they are? Why go out of your way to piss off the residents? And why does the city turn a deaf ear, especially the councilman? What an all-around loser he is! Unbelievable!
In this case I guess it takes smart businesspeople like the new owners of PJ's and the Station to know how to take care of business properly. Really a no-brainer; except in wrong beach.
greet if the owners handle the problems we won't need to rely on you, so you can stay in the ELB station writing your reports and playing chief on the internet.
I took the liberty of giving several of the news services a copy of the District Weekly with the page turned to this article. They appeared interested that there may be two sides to Mr. Rotondo’s story. While discussing this with the news media, I was hounded, name called, cussed at and continually interrupted by Business Association Vice President Dave Shlemmer, who with another Business Association advocate, tried to prevent my explanation of the other side of Mr. Rotondo’s false portrayal.
Isn’t it ironic the 2nd Street Police Officer involved shooting occurred the same day this article was published?
Isn’t it ironic that two of the three recent public disturbance youtube videos posted on the District Weekly web site and below were recorded 200 feet from where the body lay after last night’s Police Officer involved shooting?
http://www.youtube.com/user/BSResident2009
Isn’t it ironic the shooting occurred within 100 feet of Legends Bar which is the source of numerous resident complaints? This is the same Legends bar that is owned by Gene Rotondo, the President of the Business Association. The commercial property owner and Mr. Rotondo’s landlord is Bill Lorbeer, Vice Chairman of the Parking Commission.
Isn’t it ironic that Legends bar, whose owner opposes additional policing, was one of five 2nd street businesses burglarized over the past couple weeks because the bad guys know there is only one late night police officer in beat 10, a huge area stretching from Belmont Shore to Seal Beach and encompassing over 30 bars.
Belmont Shore has now experienced a murder, a throat slashing and an Officer involved shooting over the last 9 months. When residents pleaded for help from the Police Department at the last Belmont Shore Residents Association meeting held on May 14, 2009, the officer told us to quote him when he TWICE said, “YOUR ARE NOT GOING TO GET IT.” What else needs to happen before the Councilman and Police consider staffing more police in Belmont Shore? Must we wait until April to vote out Councilman DeLong before steps are taken to protect our neighborhood?
Belmont Shore/2nd St. Officer-Involved Shooting Minutes After Midnight Today (Thurs. May 28)
http://www.lbreport.com/news/may09/oisbel.htm
I've witnessed people get out of their cars to pee in front of my building, yell at their friends as they walk down the street and even cabs pulling over so passengers can throw-up out front. In addition, I have neighbors who honk at all hours to indicate they've arrive home--the rest of the residents be damned. We're all a victim of these insensitive partiers.
If I call the police about the noise and disruptions, and even suspicious activity, generally a unit doesn't come. Local police do not have time for us. The result of my calls: "We don't have an officer available. There were shootings in North Long Beach tonight." Ok, so where are the cops patrolling the coast? Do we not have units dedicated to Belmont Shore & Belmont Heights?
I've noticed many cops on 2nd at midnight. But where are they at 2am when all the drunks are leaving the bars? 2nd Street is void of police at this critical time.
I'm so fed up with all the noise and inconsiderate folks, along with the lack of law enforcement, that after 6 years it's finally gotten to the point that I've started researching other places to live.
Kudos to those folks making recordings and posting these idiotic people on YouTube.
The majority of issues around the Belmont Station have almost been alleviated since their entertainment license conditions were put in place in 2007. I have used that experience to help other residents - including those on Granada Ave. who now hope that the conditions on Panama Joe's entertainment license will have the same impact.
In my opinion, the bar conditions are only part of the equation in keeping a healthy balance between a vibrant nightlife (which the majority of my neighbors enjoy) and an area that can at times be out of control. I have personally expressed my concerns to our councilmember and the LBPD about the lack of police presence between 1:30am and 3am Thurs, Fri and Sat nights.
A single patrol car - which can be called out of Belmont Shore at any time is not sufficient to police this area when it is flooded by out of town bar patrons on the weekend. This same concern has also been expressed to me by 2nd St. business owners whose storefronts are subject to ongoing acts of vandalism.
The bar conditions were a good start. Now further cooperation with the city and police to help alleviate reoccurring problems is the next logical step. If these videos posted by residents speed up that process - then I view them as having a positive impact.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.....says John Forstrom, 38, ***frustrated by the noise, vandalism, violence and occasional creepiness he’s had to live with since purchasing a house on Glendora Avenue with his newlywed wife in August 2006.***
Businesses should feel free to ply their respective trades in a lawful manner and earn profits. Residents have a right to a peaceful and pleasant environment in which to live and raise their families. Visitors should feel welcome but only so long as they conduct themselves in a civil and lawful manner.
Balancing all of these interests in such a relatively small area of our city can be a challenge, certainly, but by no means need it be an insurmountable one.
While City government *can* serve as a facilitator for solutions, all solutions cannot, and in any case *should* not, come from City government alone. Constitutional constraints, severely limited resources and a more global (citywide) perspective and responsibility all combine to properly limit the effectiveness of government-centric solutions to these challenges.
To the extent that the BSRA and the BSBA each represent, if not all, then at least a significant segment of, their respective constituencies, they are in a unique position to work closely with City government and other stakeholders to seek and find solutions that all can learn to at least live with, if not all be fully content with.
Properly configured, re-named and re-focused (equally balanced with resident and business representatives), the Belmont Shore Parking Commission would be in a perfect position to create some much needed City government-sponsored common ground upon both groups could stand and from which they could begin to better cooperate one with the other.
The methods currently being employed by PJ's and Belmont Station, as described here, offer some hope that good cooperation can be achieved. May area residents and businesses achieve still more of the same in the future.
One thing seems abundantly clear: the name calling, finger-pointing, unfounded allegations and misinformative approach relied upon by some in the area just is not working...in fact it's decidedly counter-productive.
Wherever a community of diverse interests and priorities exists, "calm and productive" will win out over "insulting and confrontational" every time...all some in the area need do is try to employ a little more of the former and a lot less of the latter.
Perhaps if you would at least *attempt* to offer a cogent rebuttal to my comments, Mr. wrong, rather than simply insulting me for offering them and then offer some reasonable alternatives of your own, your comments might prove more constructive and solution-oriented.
But perhaps being constructive and solution-oriented is not your goal after all.
Most people don't change their bad behavior until they get a good hard kick in the ass.
Your silly "can't we all get along" goes beyond the pale. Let's take the ports for example. They were merrily fouling the air until they got their asses kicked and couldn't expand. Now you'd think they invented the green movement.
The BSBA and the BS Parking Commission DO work closely with the city and the phony councilman, to their great self-benefit, so why do they need to involve the lowly residents? You of all people should see the reality of situations and knock off your pie-in-the-sky sermons.
I know some people go pretty far with certain claims about the ethics etc of city officials. Let's not forget the recent disgusting antics with tom dean, and issues in South Gate, Maywood, Vernon, Orange County and other nearby cities, along with our phony governor and lame legislature. Not alot of confidence in government these days, for valid reasons.
Big Bob, the off-duty Cop at Big Johns 40 years ago, walked a beat on the Pike for years. He had a perpetual cigar and scowl. He was a huge, mean, ugly SOB, and if you crossed the line with him you knew it right away, but if you were ok then never a problem. If he had been present when the videotaped BS fight took place he would have taken those 4-5 dirtbags down with pleasure; he'd have paid to do it.
The LBPD Cops I know, after seeing the last "fight" video on youtube, would probably want to immediately drive down to Legends to kick some lawbreaking dirtbag's asses, they'd be so enraged. We know how the Sheriff's would feel.
Didn't seem to bother you too much since you milk-toastedly explained all the non-responses and probable inattention away as a manpower/priority issue. Didn't you feel like taking those dirtbags down and hauling them downtown?
I have a feeling Bob would throw up if he read your sad excuses. Too bad if you don't like me calling you on your bullshit too.
But pre-disposition is not blindness and bias is not acceptance of poor standards of conduct or of shoddy work performance. I do not excuse poor policework and I do not tolerate the inept, either in my field or any other.
I maintain very high standards for myself and for the Team of officers I am honored to lead. I'll leave the question of the quality of my own work and leadership to those best qualified to assess it...my supervisors and those I am privileged to supervise.
But if asking area stakeholders to be more civil and coooperative with one another is "pie in the sky", so be it. If asking civic groups like BSRA and BSBA to work more constructively with one another and more closely with local government is "nutty" then "nutty" I suppose I will have to remain.
The sad fact is that they don't make cops like "Big Bob" anymore. The last vestiges of those (if you'll pardon the vernacular) "kick-ass-and-take-names" sorts of cops were still around when I came on over 20 years ago but they quickly faded away and, thanks to our now hyper-litigous and Internal Affairs Complaint-predisposed society, were never replaced.
Although I and my classmates were fortunate enough to be trained in the ways of the "old school", those old school methods just cannot be employed any longer. The methods "Big Bob" applied "back then" would have seen him routinely and severely disciplined, suspended and eventually fired today.
So the cops of today have become at once less of a blunt instrument of public policy and more of a precise and far more creative one. You may not find this preferable, Mr. wrong, but it is a transformation that society has asked and expected of us and so it has occurred. Cops today are far more highly educated and far less likely to become involved in uses of force than we once were. We have been asked to resolve challenges differently from the manner in which we once did and so we do so.
We still "take care of business" every single time that proves necessary (LBPD enjoys a very well-earned reputation in the national law enforcement community for this ability), but we can only do so much with the resources and the funds we are given, the methods of operation were are expected to employ and the guidelines we are now required to scrupulously adhere to.
Many cops and Deputies (myself included) may very well "want" to operate differently than we sometimes do but the times when we could do what we "want" without any regard to established law, policy or procedure have long since passed.
The manner in which we work now hasn't changed out of any particular desire to do so on our part...society has required it of us. Since our authority and mandate comes from that society...we are required to comply and so we have.
Videos like those being posted are nothing new for me, Mr. wrong. So please excuse me if I seem less outraged than some on this site. We see such nonsense every single night throughout this fine city. Bar fights and late night loud and rude behavior are bad and should be dealt with well and effectively, but there are many, many other things far worse...trust me...and we see and deal with those things too...every single day and night.
But the issues you and others are experiencing along 2nd Street are very important to you and so they must also be very important to us.
While I have no personal knowledge of this, I suspect that you may well be seeing some increased police presence along 2nd Street in the coming . In this I could be wrong. The apparent increase in nonsense in the area and the publicity this site and other news sources have brought to bear will have served to raise the awareness level somewhat...of all concerned.
You and others have my professional assurance as a Sergeant of Police that what I can do, within the law and established policy and procedure, I will.
finally. so what was the big problem with me saying the same thing? which at the time, you denied.
Just don't chastise me when I (righteously) trash scum like randy gordon or certain others, because if you do I will (your words) really degrade the civic process in my response to you.
I haven't checked, but have you policed every thread for "violations", or are you just looking out for greet?
greet you'll be blue and ice-cold before you ever get an apology from me.
By all means do continue to flail away ineffectively at me if you so desire. It appears to help you to feel better about yourself and your positions to offer personal insult rather than cogent and well-reasoned argument.
As mentioned immediately below, you harm me not at all by insulting me but I believe you do your own arguments grave injury.
I'd rather be a "poor player" than a "poor polisher".
If you weren't a police officer I'd want to put you on "ignore".
I do not offer "excuses". I simply attempt to explain, as best as I am able, a little bit about what we do, how we do it and why.
I am, indeed, privileged to have earned my own column at LBPOST.com and I greatly appreciate your mentioning it. All readers and commenters are most welcome as long as they prove willing check their insults, their hyperbole and their intellectual dishonesty at the door.
You seem like a pretty intelligent fellow. Stop on by. Stripped of all of the silliness you sometimes dish out here, you and I might actually be able to accomplish a reasonable and constructive dialog!
I feel more priveleged to post here than I ever would be at that phony chamber shit-sheet. Their scheme obviously is a bit too intricate for you to grasp.
Hey, I hear the chamber has a really good wal-mart seminar coming up. Would you mind getting back with us on the details?
This can wait until after you stop running in circles and happily lifting you leg and peeing, from mccabe stroking your savaged self-esteem.
Thanks for continuing to make my case for me.
no one knows what your assertions are, perhaps burying them in your ever more pedantic posts is a mistake.
But pray let these "poor players" strut and fret, good Sir, for they harm me not at all. Their various causes and positions, however, suffer greatly indeed.
any beer, liquor, wine sales in Long Beach.rar,restaurant,liquor store or otherwise-with
a 12:30AM exit time.
A few drinks more is not going to make the less attractive,more attractive to the
obviously, equally-or even more so-unattractive looser the likes of which have been
featured on the recent You Tube videos.
This will allow LBPD to husband and deploy its depleting resources somewhat better.
This isn’t the first time Councilman DeLong has met with this same group of residents about this issue. I can’t wait to find out how he will spin the evidence from the multiple videos and the shooting last night.
If you plan a protest I know people who will be eager to attend. And so will the media-they'll have a field day.
greet could you please show up wearing your beanie and cecil propellor cap and provide security for us, please?
As I don't live on Covina, could I not attend?
And please tell me it'll be at Legends or another establishment along 2nd St
Despite the fact City Hall gives the Business Association several hundred thousand dollars every year of taxpayer's dollars (the residents association gets zero), City Hall and Councilman DeLong allow Mr. Rotondo to ban whom ever he wants and necessarily agree with his way of thinking. According to the city attorney, it is acceptable to ban me from observing how taxpayers dollars are spent.
There are over 260 businesses in Belmont Shore. 54 of them have alcohol licenses. Approximately 10 of those businesses serving alcohol are open after 11:00 PM. Only a handful of those businesses serving alcohol after 11:00 pm are a problem and strive to attract a problem clientele. One solution might be to increase the business license fee by $20,000 per year for businesses serving alcohol after 11:00 PM and use the proceeds to pay for an additional cop dedicated to bar closing time in Belmont Shore.
90% of the bar patron public disturbances occur after 11:00 pm. If businesses don’t want to pay the fee, then don’t serve alcohol. If they want to serve alcohol after 11:00 PM, then they need to pay for the additional support needed to police their patrons.
"You people knew there were bars on 2nd Street when you bought your houses, so deal with the noise and other associated problems. You have no right to complain. You have no right to try and maintain the quality of your neighborhood."
Good luck trying to stop all the BRO'S and there HO'S from being complete retards it's in there blood to be stupid.
Pretty much everyone go's to CSULB to get smart and after go's to second street to get stupid. I'm glad I don't live there anymore:)