The District Weekly - Latest Comments in SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

otay90 — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:48:32 -0000

Oh, Bonnie...nice try.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

bonnie — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:09:41 -0000

McCain and Palin thats the party to vote for. They are both born again christians. McCain has more experience than the other canidate. I deffently do not want a muslem in the white house. Nor do I want a president who does not pledge allegence to the flag.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

otay90 — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:28:44 -0000

Exactly. Golly gee, guys-n-gals.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

otay90 — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:52:17 -0000

OMG, I've heard less self-indulgent speeches at the Oscars. Norma Desmond, anyone?

None of Sarah Palin's quotes were taken out of context, facts are facts not half-truths, and recording devices aren't liberally biased. Typical talk radio whining points, but after eight disastrous years, even the most-rabid right wingers are fleeing Bush. I'm sure John_B was a big Bush supporter then, but now?

And Palin is even worse and more unqualified than Bush. And her biggest supporters are bailing already.

But, one thing does still bother me John_B, how can you call yourself a patriot love a seccesionist? Kinda the icing on your twisted rhetorical cake.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

John_B — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 10:17:53 -0000

Andy: Your repeated tactic of offering insult rather than respectful and reasoned dialog is unfortunate. I've made many attempts to overcome this tedious and juvenile method of communicating on your part but you refuse to relent.

Reasonable explanations for the issues you last raised are possible but I will not suggest them because, at end, it will not matter to you and those who believe, and behave, as you do.

The bottom line, as I asserted from the beginning, is that you just don't like Sarah Palin. Fine. I get that. No amount of reasoned discourse or facts offered on my part is going to change that.

I have made my best attempt to address each point you've raised and to do so respectfully but I have been met with insult and derision for my efforts.

Fine, I get that to. You need someone to sneer at. You need someone to insult and feel superior to. The only redeeming aspect of this dialog has been that, through the manner in which you have conducted yourself, you have, I believe, shown all of us just how lacking you are in intelligence; in respect; in honesty; in integrity; in tolerance; and in maturity.

I will thus conclude my participation in this discussion. You are now free to return to your perfect little world where you are always right and where those who disagree with you are always wrong; where it's acceptable to return respect with insult and to return factual offerings with cynical sound bytes, half truths, out-of-context quotations and other shoddy reporting practices.

You and those who feel as you do can thus now high-5 one another and proudly declare:

"Boy, we didn't have much in the way of facts to support our position or to refute his, but we sure got some good personal insults in!"

God bless you and yours, Andy.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

otay90 — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 08:38:34 -0000

Today's Palin moment:

Keep in mind that this woman has a 'degree' in Journalism:

COURIC: And when it comes to establishing, I was curious, what newspapers and magazines did you regularly read before you were tapped for this to stay informed and understand the world?

PALIN: I’ve read most of them, again with a great appreciation for the press, for the media.

COURIC: Like what ones specifically?

PALIN: Umm… all of them. Any of them that have been in front of me over all these years.

COURIC: Can you name any of them?

PALIN: I have a vast variety of sources where we get our news… Alaska isn’t a foreign country where it’s kind of suggested it seems like, wow how could you keep in touch with what the rest of Washington, DC may be thinking and doing, when you live up there in Alaska. Believe me, Alaska is like a microcosm of America.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

otay90 — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:55:02 -0000

God, I hope you're not an accountant. Or even a treasurer for a cub scout pack. When debt is twisted into surplus, you've attained the highest ranks of doublespeak. You can't even get the terminology correct. Leave it to those of us with college degrees.

Ms. Unwed Grandmother will make a fine president that you can be proud of as she's clearly well-qualified to lie about pregnancies, use her office for personal gain, and prop up secessionist parties. Some "patriot" you are.

And, remember, YOU started the personal attacks, so Pompous Pilate, you might want to check into the stones and glass houses thing.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

howardx — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:55:54 -0000

sorry john but apocalyptic fundamentalism is a deal breaker for me, the fact that its not for you shows the total moral bankruptcy and anything to win attitude of your party.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

howardx — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:48:23 -0000

im sorry john but apocalyptic fundamentalism is a deal breaker for me and it should be for you too. you can attempt to make it all sound mainstream and normal but we both know it isnt. if you want to vote for churchy spice thats your business but dont come around me trying to say what happens in that church is normal xtian worship practices.

next

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

John_B — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:20:11 -0000

Howardx: Let's be clear on this: I'm a patriot first, a conservative second and a Republican third. But above all I am a person who favors reason above irrationality; who places fact above fiction; who places truth above rumor and innuendo; and who believes that a person (any person…even you) should be judged according to the content of their character, rather than by their appearance, their religion or their political affiliation.

Now, nothing I have learned about the FACTS of anything Palin has done or said is to any degree 'indefensible'. Palin has the inalienable right to follow whatever religious beliefs she chooses, just as you do. To condemn Palin on the basis of her personal religious beliefs is wrong and it is discriminatory.

Pastor Muthee is an ordained evangelical minister from Africa. He had been a guest at Palin’s church on several previous occasions. While visiting the church in 2005 he prayed over Palin. So what? I don’t see anything wrong with the prayer he prayed over her. Do you? Nor should Palin be held accountable for what this particular ordained minister once did in Africa any more than JFK should have been held responsible for what thousands of catholic priests did to millions of little boys…oh wait…that’s right…JFK wasn't held responsible…he was a liberal democrat so it never occurred to anyone to think that he could be. Silly me, I forgot.

Like it or not, howardx, the condemnation of what, today, we call witches and witchcraft is very much an accepted Christian biblical concept. It is not fringe and it is not ‘FAR out of the mainstream”, it’s printed…very clearly…in scripture if you would but care to seek it out. That you disagree with this concept and this belief does not make it any less valid as a Christian biblical concept.

Do I believe that Pastor Muthee really ran a witch out of Kiambu in Africa? I find it unlikely, but not, to any degree, impossible. Do I believe that HE believes he did? Clearly. Does his belief that he did make him any less of an ordained Christian minister? Not one tiny bit less. As an ordained Christian minister does he have any business praying over a member of a church he is visiting? Absolutely. Does the fact that this visiting ordained Christian minister prayed over Palin in any way disqualify her as a VP candidate?

Not in the least.

Next.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

howardx — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:38:57 -0000

john b
all you've proved is that youre willing to put party above country and defend the indefensible. palin can self identify herself as the pope for all i care, belief in "young earth" creationism, witches and other bronze age myths disqualifies her as far as i am concerned. do you believe those things john b? do you believe humans and dinosaurs walked together? have you watched the video of her getting blessed by the african witchhunter? do you find that normal?

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

John_B — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:02:35 -0000

Howardx: Your assertion that Palin ‘has religious views that are FAR out of the mainstream of (Christianity)’ is patently false. Palin identifies herself as an Evangelical Christian. According to the US Census Bureau, Evangelical Christians make up about 28.6% of the total population of Christians in the U.S. This is the largest of the three Christian groupings, in fact, with Roman Catholics estimated at 24.5% and so-called “Mainline Protestants” bringing up the rear at 13.9%. Thus, by percentages alone, Palin’s religious beliefs actually REPRESENT the ‘mainstream’ of Christianity, rather than being “FAR out of” it.

Palin may not be as adept at expressing her beliefs to others as she could be but the fact remains that, religiously speaking, she is most definitely mainstream in her beliefs. That said, I would again caution you against judging others based upon their religious beliefs. Doing so represents a level of religious intolerance that, taken to its extreme, is the stuff that pogroms and holocausts are made of.

Neither is there any definitive proof that Palin ‘believes that nonsense about humans and dinosaurs’. One person has attributed a comment to her that, to my knowledge, has never once been corroborated. Much ado is being made about this one person’s comment about a conversation he claims to have shared with Palin. One must ask why. Many people seem concerned that as VP, Palin would somehow attempt to inject her personal religious views (whatever they may be) into notional public policy. Yet, when she had every opportunity to do so at the State level, as Governor, she never did.

This excerpt from an L.A. times article cited previously: “But since taking office in December 2006, Palin has made no moves to impose the teaching of creationism or "intelligent design," the modern version of creationist thought, in Alaska schools. ‘As far as teachers are concerned, we haven't seen any push,’ said Joan Sargent, a Fairbanks teacher who heads the Alaska Science Teachers Assn. ‘Teachers already have the flexibility to introduce creationist views, as an addendum to the mainstream study of evolution’, Sargent said”.

Those who are anxious to condemn Palin (for ANY reason) will not point out facts or quotes like these. They are too busy ignoring them in favor of less reliable reports that indict and besmirch her. But facts are funny things, they stand on their own and exist whether some will acknowledge them or not.

Now, I think I have clearly demonstrated here, and by any and all standards of reasonableness, that: Palin is mainstream in her religious beliefs; Palin should not be considered unqualified for elected office because of those religious beliefs and that Palin has had ample opportunity to inject her religious beliefs into public policy at the State level and *has not done so*.

Next?

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

howardx — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:50:49 -0000

john b,
im judging palin on the fact that she has religious views that are FAR out of the mainstream of xtianity. the fact that she actually believes that nonsense about humans and dinosaurs disqualifies her for ANY elected position in my opinion.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

John_B — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:32:19 -0000

Howardx: Without acknowledging that Palin ever actually made this comment to this person, I must ask you: Are you presuming to judge Palin based upon her religious beliefs? If so, I would caution you to avoid such considerations.

The last time I checked, in this country we are guaranteed the right to believe (or to not believe) as we choose. You may not like Palin's religious beliefs but, whatever they are do not de-facto disqualify her from running for elected office...at ANY level.

Palin's religious beliefs did not disqualify her at the local or State levels, where, in both cases, she ran successfully and served effectively. I don't think her running and serving at the national level will prove to be any exception.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

John_B — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:33:51 -0000

Andy: ‘Debt service’ is not the same as ‘debt’. If you’re looking at Wasilla’s Debt Service Funds, you might also note that these funds are described as: “used to account for the accumulation of, *resources for*, and the payment of general long-term debt principal, interest, and related costs.” (Emphasis added). In other words, an increased Debt Service Fund reflects, among other things, an increase in the resources (i.e. monies) deposited within them to…say it slowly with me…service debt.

Nor did I ever say that Wasilla didn’t have either debt or debt service funds or that one or the other had not increased. What I said was that the last Wasilla budget that Palin presided over reflected a surplus…and it did.

I didn’t offer specific numbers because I had hoped you might go find them…and see and accept them…for yourself. Since you seem unwilling (or perhaps unable) to do so, here they are: At the beginning of FY03; total available funds were $45.6 million. By the end of FY03 they spent $30.4 million. The remainder was $15.2 million.

This remainder, Andy, is what is referred to as a “surplus”.

Do you get it now? Are those numbers sufficiently specific for you?

Do you have anymore ad hominem attacks or can we finally move on?

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

howardx — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:32:22 -0000

she is totally unsuitable for any elected office

"ANCHORAGE -- Soon after Sarah Palin was elected mayor of the foothill town of Wasilla, Alaska, she startled a local music teacher by insisting in casual conversation that men and dinosaurs coexisted on an Earth created 6,000 years ago -- about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct -- the teacher said"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/...

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

otay90 — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:26:40 -0000

So, that would be "fool", then.

You can dispute facts with twisted spin and excepted quotes, but offer no supporting numbers. Very simply, a larger percentage of Wasilla's budget was devoted to "debt service" after she left office. Nice try, smugster.

Perhaps you also believe dinosaurs walked the earth with men? Or maybe with Jesus?

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

John_B — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:20:17 -0000

Andy: As previously mentioned, you seem incapable of reasonable and respectful dialog or discourse. You feel passionately about your position, I get that, but why the apparent need to resort to insults? In my experience, those who resort to insults during debate do so because they do not feel their position is a particularly strong one. Rather than arguing entirely on available facts, therefor, they resort to attacking their opponent personally.

Perhaps that’s the case with you.

Your WSJ article is an interesting offering. But I think you have misunderstood it as well as my own assertion on this topic.

Nowhere in this article does Author Michael Phillips assert that Palin left Wasilla in debt. Nowhere in this article does anyone that Phillips interviewed say that Palin left Wasilla in debt. Nowhere. No one in this article says this because Palin *did not leave Wasilla in debt*. I believe if you would simply review the published FY03 budget for Wasilla (as I did), you would see the truth of this.

That you seem unwilling to do so leads me to believe what I have suspected all along; that you are not interested in truth but, rather, simply in condemning Palin.

This article reports upon a municipal project that Palin, as Mayor, oversaw and some of the challenges that occurred throughout the process. I believe that, in your over-anxiousness to condemn Palin, you may have missed a couple of key quotes within the article:

“At the time, with the information she had, [Ms. Palin] made the right decision, but you know what? Litigation happens." - Former City Finance Chief, Mr. Leonard

And then this one:

“All I can say about the sports complex is that it was done on time and under budget. It was done legally, and for someone else to say it could have been done differently in a better way, that's strictly their opinion." - Construction Manager Donald Moore.

So when Kelson asserts that Palin “left her old town quite heavily in debt”, I dispute this and offer the City’s published annual budget as proof that she, in fact, left Wasilla with quite a large surplus. Then you respond with an article about a municipal project that experienced some challenges, an article that doesn’t refute, to any degree or in any manner, the budgetary *fact* that I offered and you then accuse *me* of “repeating untruths”, being “a fool and a liar”.

So much for reason. So much for logic. So much for seeking truth and then acknowledging it once found.

Lastly, it is not “foolish” to support a candidate that one may not feel is “the most qualified”. The “most qualified” candidate could very well be Jesus Christ but, unfortunately, He isn’t running. I would venture to guess that you have supported many candidates that you may not have felt were necessarily the “best qualified” at the time, but, like me in this case, you supported the candidate (or the ticket) that, through the process we currently have, was offered and that most closely represents your view of the direction our great nation should be heading.

McCain/Palin represent that for me. Apparently Obama/Biden represent that for you. So be it.

At the end of the day (or the year or the millenium) I believe we will be a better nation and a better people for having once again struggled through this critical aspect of self-government.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

otay90 — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 01:39:52 -0000

J_B: Um, you don't seem to get it. Again, repeating an untruth endlessly does not make it true. And most pathetically, you haven't said or supported an assertion that she is the most qualified candidate. Which, if you don't believe, makes you quite the fool.

And, you lied, it is NOT false that she left Wasilla in debt. She campaigned for an increased sales tax for the sports complex bond. And then screwed that project. But don't take my word for it, here's the Wall Street Journal's take on that:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122065537792905...

So, J_B: fool or liar, your choice. I believe they both fit.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

John_B — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:21:20 -0000

Kelson: If you meant ‘hearsay’ then, no, it isn’t that. ‘Hearsay’ is an out of court statement offered, at trial, as evidence to prove the matter asserted. The comments in the salon.com article weren’t offered at trial. If you meant “heresy” then, no, it isn’t that either. “Heresy” generally has a religious connotation and unlike some, I don’t view politics as a religion. After reading the article I do find that it seems just a tad slanted toward those who seem to have a personal axe to grind where Palin is concerned (since those seem to be the only people Author Talbot interviewed). It’s helpful, in such cases, to provide corroborating information but I don’t see that the author made any attempt to do so. So much for objective journalism. Your assertion that Palin left Wasilla “quite heavily in debt” is patently false. The published budget for Wasilla for FY03 (the last budget she presided over) reflects a $15 million surplus, which, by the way, was almost double the surplus from the previous year. I have taken great care to respond to specific accusations and allegations in my posts on this topic. I have repeatedly asked for facts to support these various accusations and allegations but have received none. Unbiased readers can decide for themselves who, between us, they feel is offering facts and truth and who is offering ‘straw’ arguments and unsupported ‘talking points’. As stated, my point concerning her college education was that it seems to be less important to some than the fact that she was a pageant contestant. I had never even heard of Governor Palin before she was announced as McCain’s running mate. As previously mentioned, my defense of Palin (here) has nothing to do with party affiliation and everything to do with and objective analysis of her qualifications…something, I believe, most of her detractors have not been willing to do. It’s too easy for some to parrot (as you and others have) baseless and entirely false accusations without even bothering to do even the most superficial research into the truth of the matter. Try my approach sometime, Kelson, you actually just might learn something.

Andy: That you seem incapable of making a point without insulting others does you, and your opinions, great disservice. This is unfortunate because you might actually persuade others if you would rely less on insults and more on facts.

LB_City_Girl: So if I understand you correctly, you have no facts to support your concerns about Palin…merely a sense that her becoming V.P. would somehow be embarrassing for you. All I can say to that is to repeat my previous comment: It seems to me that some folks just don’t like Palin, and it would be nice if they would just admit that. It doesn’t disqualify Palin to any degree, but it would be a lot more truthful if they would simply admit it.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

LB_City_Girl — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:40:36 -0000

I'm voting for Obama.

And it's nothing "personal" about me liking Palin, in fact, in person she and I would probably really click--I have the same hairstyle, wear glasses, and am a sports Mom!

She just simply should not be VP--it's like a bad after school special or something. "Like OMG! my mom just became President and it's like, sooooooooooooooo embarrassing!"

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

otay90 — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:29:47 -0000

J-B:

Tolerance has nothing to do with suffering fools gladly. A distinction lost on the living-in-Mom's-basement and offshore-bride marrying kind.

Last time I checked, "bitter" was generally a pejorative term.

Sorry about your computer troubles, but it explains why you're in the McCain-Palin camp.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

Kelson — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:08:06 -0000

You may think this doesn't count because it is heresay, but there it is:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/15/be...

And you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who would make the statement that "by all accounts" she h as been doing very well at policy decisions. Sounds like she left her old town quite heavily in debt. Sounds like she may be doing very well protecting us from Putin's rearing head whenever it pops up over Alaska.

I appreciate that you have a knack for knocking down straw men (and straw women) in your posts. Someday you should get out from behind that mirror of yours and actually read something from the reality-based part of the world.

She went to college; so what? Lots of people go to college. And because she's not your "first choice" you don't quite get off the hook. Was she your second choice? Third? 100th? Or last choice (at least within the GOP)?

I am stunned by what might be the last person in this country to have such blind obeisance.
What does it take for you to acknowledge a mistake or error on the part of your comrades?
When you ask "Could all of this be because the bottom line for most of these people is the simple fact that Sarah Palin isn’t a liberal and, thus, she is to be sneered at, derided and dismissed?" it strikes me as odd that you continue to think we don't sneer and deride and dismiss because she's simply an UNQUALIFIED BUFFOON? Many of us sneer and deride and dismiss the unqualified buffoons in our party as well but you can't seem to do this. But hey, that's what comes with all the other cognitive dissonance in your life.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

John_B — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:32:14 -0000

My profound apologies for the double-post. My internet is not being very cooperative today.

Re: SARAH PALIN IS COMING TO CARSON IN EIGHT DAYS

John_B — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:06:39 -0000

I must say I find this extremely interesting.

So many people who preach tolerance and inclusiveness can't seem to practice either of those where Governor Palin is concerned. Could it be because many of these people are capable of tolerating and including others only when it best suits them?

So many people insist upon more opportunities for women, especially in government, but seem unwilling to extend THIS particular governmental opportunity to THIS particular woman. Could it be because many of these people are only interested in more governmental opportunities for the women that meet with their approval?

Some claim to feel that we should be judged based upon our achievements, yet, when Sarah Palin achieves things, she is, strangely, still found lacking. Could it be because for many of these people the only achievements that have true merit are those that THEY decide deserve it and all other achievements are thus deemed insufficient?

Sarah Palin has a college degree, but all some people seem to be able to focus on is the fact that she was a pageant contestant TWENTY-FOUR years ago. So what? Did she do something illegal? Is it wrong for an attractive and intelligent woman to aspire to be recognized for that?

Palin has served well and faithfully as the Chief Executive, the Governor, of her State, but all some people seem to be able to focus on are her eyeglasses, her hair or her clothes. So what? What happened to judging people by the content of their character rather than according to their outward appearance? Apparently that only applies when we are judging liberals.

Could all of this be because the bottom line for most of these people is the simple fact that Sarah Palin isn’t a liberal and, thus, she is to be sneered at, derided and dismissed?

Andy: Please point out for me where and when I have insulted anyone. Is it your assertion that no other candidate for V.P. has ever misspoken or failed to follow in lockstep with their running mate’s ideas and beliefs? Clearly this is not the case yet, for some reason, when others have done it, it has been excused. But when Palin does it it’s somehow not.

Kelson: Your attribute a belief to Governor Palin (your reference to dinosaurs) that I do not believe she possesses. Please cite your source for this attribution or, once again, please try to deal in fact, rather than fiction. Palin has been making ‘policy decisions’ for some time now and, by all accounts, doing so very well indeed. This would seem to indicate that she is quite capable of weighing evidence and taking facts into account. “Misunderestimated”? Are you trying to say that the Founders *didn’t* underestimate the “basic principles of ‘the Enlightenment’” (whatever those and that might be)? I realize I’m no astrophysicist, but that one really confused me. The “Zeroth Ammendment”? Are you making up words, misspelling others and making up amendments to support your arguments now? If your comments are in any way indicative of the sort of ‘reason and rational thought’ you would have us follow, I think I’ll stick to Plato and Socrates, Locke and Descartes.

Thanks though!