I really dig the Sumitomo bank building. I've been trying to figure out what will go in there. I hope I come up with a brilliant idea before that cool building disappears.
LB City Girl
· 11 months ago
It is an awesome building.
Beachcombover
· 11 months ago
The Civic Center was just built in the wrong era. This brutalist bastion of concrete and rebar would have been among the prides of the Third Reich. The main tower of bureaucratic babel is rivaled only by the Praying Hands contraption at Oral Roberts University in Tulsa. The library, designed to withstand a direct thermonuclear hit, should be retained as a monument to Cold War paranoia. And let's not lose that wall of Long Beach Centennial commemorative tiles, put together by a contractor who mangled the spelling of many donors' names and blew town without a trace.
John
· 11 months ago
The Civic Center is significant architecture designed by some of Long Beach's most famous architects. It's in dire need of some serious maintenance and updating, but it's real architecture that should be respected and examined prior to proposing to throw it away. On the other hand, CityPlace, Pike, Camden, Aqua do not exhibit serious architecture but are merely stage sets/fake historicism constructed of foam with the major architectural concept appearing to be an intent to fool the public about the age of the buildings. The Civic Center architecture is quite brutal and not to everyone's current taste. But at least it was serious, honest work of its time. Let's tear down those other architectural embarassments first. Long Beach has a history of great architecture--what happened?
Andy
· 11 months ago
I second that on Aqua and Camden...esp. Aqua. It's a post-modern cartoon homage to art deco, designed by drunken flamingos, with fixtures purchased from the close-out bin at Home Depot. The statues and weird jump rope thing appear to be stolen from the "It' s A Small World" ride at Disney, stripped to their structural base, and bolted on as a tragic afterthought.
I would love to read the BS that they conjured up when they submitted this pair of separated Siamese twins for a design award (as all completed projects do).
LB City Girl
· 11 months ago
The Civic Center really is quite beautiful when you walk its plazas. In its design, the form follows function. Functionality is beautiful. I don't find it in need of destruction. But then, I'm a big fan of this era of architecture...
Brian
· 11 months ago
John, I love you but the Civic Center needs to go. It is one of the holes in downtown's doughnut and it needs to be fixed. The architecture of city hall and the main library should inspire a city's population and Lincoln Park should be an urban oasis for all. The fundamentals of the current civic center, courthouse and PD headquarters included are an urban design blight on the downtown, only to be reviled by Boston's City Hall, which is also under consideration for the wrecking ball.
I do love the Sumitomo building on Redondo. Please find a ClaimJumpers to move into it ;op
Theo, great topic to start the new year.
Dave in Alamitos Beach
· 11 months ago
I kinda like the Sumitomo building and always thought it would have made a great coffee shop with all those windows. Too bad Starbucks moved in just down the street. BUT I really can't stand the rest of that entire lot. The Albertson's and all the strip mall stores are just truely sad and pathetic in that area. Can we leave the Sumitomo buidling and tear everything else down? ;-)
As for the Main Library and City Hall, these are by far the ugliest most dysfunctional builidings in all of Long Beach, and let's face it, they have a lot of competition. What can you say about buildings which fail to do even the most basic job they should be doing?
Instead of welcoming people to the library and protecting the books, the library does the exact opposite. It ruins the books and scares people away. Who wants to browse through a moldy windowless underground building after surviving the homeless welcoming committee?
And City Hall may be even worse. From the outside it looks like a forlorn airport tower or maybe an Eastern European jail. Inside it's confusing, dangerously unsafe, and well, ugly of course.
And the Centennial Park amphitheater/berm monstrosity? What does this do other than provide a good vantage point for someone with a machine gun and the ability to withstand the smell of urine and vomit?
John
· 11 months ago
Hey, Brian--aren't doughnuts supposed to have holes?
And Dave, some of us are looking for informed, cultured architectural criticism. With awareness of who Killingworth, Gibbs, and Wing are, what the original program was, etc. Don't we have a Cultural Heritage Commission?
The Civic Center is not perfect, but relatively speaking, is superior architecture to Pike, Cityplace, etc. Any replacement will most likely be far inferior and much smaller. The library has many windows and buildings do not cause homelessness, but I can understand your points. Architecture is an art and there is no one right answer. I just think there are far worse projects we could dispose of first.
Architecture and urban planning have a tremendous impact on the personality and marketability of the city--it is time to buck up and take it seriously! The negative impact and insults to the real history by the fake Cityplace and Pike architecture on what was (and perhaps could still be) a great downtown is almost insurmountable. If we are to be unique and on a par with Santa Monica, Pasadena, we need to play up our unique architectural historical assets (Queen Mary?) and contrast them with real top-notch design of our time. This fake, backwards-looking stuff has got to stop--Disneyland is just down the road and has done a far better job of it.
Dave in Alamitos Beach
· 11 months ago
City Hall may have been designed by fancy architects, but it doesn't work as the building it was intended to be. I'll leave it to the experts to decide which of those is most important.
As for the "fake" architecture that is being lamented, some of it is good and some of it is poor to your average eye (i.e. tourist dollars), but the Pike for example I would consider bad architecture NOT because (well just because) of the way it looks, but rather because of the way it functions. I bet it can still be saved but it actually needs more added to it, not less.
John
· 11 months ago
The librarians and lots of users fought to keep the library, at least temporarily. That doesn't seem completely unfunctional. A leaking roof is a maintenance issue, not a functional one.
I'm extremely interested in what is "good" about the fake architecture to the "average" eye. Tourists travel all around the world to see great architecture. You're saying we should have bad architecture to draw the tourist dollars? I don't think it works that way.
Yes, the Pike could be improved with appropriate design intervention, and that probably means adding more. That's why I'd rather shoot limited resources at doing something like that than tearing down and replacing the Civic Center.
Brian
· 11 months ago
The nuclear bunker that cannot keep the rain out is the absolute opposite of what our public temple of knowledge should be. It should inspire the local citizenry to expand their minds while protecting the information that lies within it. One problem is maintenance, the other is fundamental design.
There is an opportunity to start over, expand and improve Lincoln Park, create an approachable center of government, a Library that inspires, and pay for it at least in part through private development that would also help give life to our civic center.
Dave in Alamitos Beach
· 11 months ago
Well since you asked, I believe the average tourist coming to Long Beach is NOT coming to Long Beach to "see great architecture." I assume the average convention tourist wants to see buildings that look well maintained, clean, and occupied. They want to imagine themselves living, shopping, or doing business in a building, and they want that to seem like a good thing not a bad one.
Sure they'd rather see "good architecture" than "bad," but there is a reason that Thomas Kincade and cute cat websites are so popular, so I don't really trust the artistic judgment of any random group of tourists. ;-)
Oh and most of the people I have talked to want to have a "main library" of at least equal size and function as the present main library. But most librarians and library users don't care about that particular building, but rather about the services it provides.
LB City Girl
· 11 months ago
I don't agree at all that City Hall is confusing. I've never had any trouble finding who or what I need there. I also think, as a library user, that the library functions well too. In fact, I see lots of room for more books there! It's planners really did consider the future.
Dave, how much time have you actually spent in the library? Because it doesn't feel yucky because of its lack of windows at all. It feels cozy, although in an institutional way.
Have you ever said "Hi!" to any of the homeless? Because I have, I've even stopped and talked with them. They really aren't so bad...they are people just like you and I. Alot of them even read books!
Andreas
· 11 months ago
Interesting conversation.
Dave, the last thing i would want to see our city do is design with the interest of mainstream "safe" America in mind. Let's leave that for cities in Orange County such as Irvine who already do a great job of it.
Long Beach does have a great history of architecture and that should be celebrated, even if those examples come from the brutalist era and cause people to love it or hate it. The iibrary is functional and so is city hall. It's the area around it including lincoln park that aren't and could use a smart design intervention. The park on top of the library could be an incredible asset but instead most people don't even know it exists.
All the other projects mentioned definitely suck balls. I just hope the people responsible for directing the faux art deco look are gone from the city and if not please let us all know who they are so that we can chase them out of the city with pitchforks.
Allow me to introduce another future blunder to those that aren't familiar with it. It's under development in the downtown and it's name is West Gateway. But instead of faux art deco it's faux modern and looks like a build your own apt complex kit you can buy at walmart for your kids.
Dave in Alamitos Beach
· 11 months ago
I'm not sure why I'm the one being called out here, but yes, I think City Hall & the Main Library are ugly, but there are worse things about that area - namely the homeless and a perception of lack of safety. Also, I'd throw in a ridiculous park design, surely we can all agree on that?
And since people seem to care, yes, I'm a librarian, and the people need to be served as well as the assets, i.e. the books. I think the Main Library fails in that regard. Who can even find the front door? Seriously, could you get more unwelcoming than either City Hall or the Library? Phew.
Okay, now let's discuss other buildings. And if anyone can't think of any, what's with the vacant lot at the corner of 4th & Cherry? It's been there for years. If no one's doing anything with it, can't the city buy it and turn it into a dog park?
Speaking of ugly buildings, is there a way to put a moratorium on ugly strip malls? They're still going up everywhere! Those are the real eyesores.
John
· 11 months ago
Cool LB slogan idea: "foam and stucco--the Thomas Kincade of architecture"
Theo Douglas
· 11 months ago
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the comments. You should all give yourselves a pat on the back--for engaging in an ancient mental process which sometimes seems to not happen very much in Long Beach. It's called thinking. And, Dave in Alamitos Beach, sorry but I have to respond to one of your comments--about tourists not coming to Long Beach for the architecture. (But don't feel singled out; it's a good thing.) I differ from you in that I think it's entirely possible that some tourists--a very few--might come here for the architecture. It's a possibility. But Dave, even if they don't, should we use that as an excuse to say "Oh, we don't need good architecture--the tourists don't care"? I would say no--that great architecture is for us more than it's for the tourists. We who live here are the ones who will make the most use of it--and when the tourists do show up to visit the Queen Mary or the submarine or that place where the Spruce Goose used to be, they can envy us--and export that envy back to Walla Walla or Seattle or Keokuk. Believe me, Dave, they will notice if we improve our city with fine architecture. Sure, they won't ALL notice--but enough of them will. Remember what happened in California Heights a few years back? It was voted one of the best neighborhoods in the country (I think the rest of it was "... in which to raise a family") by Sunset magazine. Because some people noticed. And part of the reason they did was the architecture. That's all. I'll get off my soapbox. Thanks again for giving all this some thought, folks.
Dave in Alamitos Beach
· 11 months ago
Wow, I really feel I am being misunderstood here.
Sorry Theo, but I'm afraid you don't differ from me. You say you think it's possible that a very few tourists might come to Long Beach to see the architecture. I agree. In it's entirety I wrote that "I believe the average tourist coming to Long Beach is NOT coming to Long Beach to 'see great architecture.'" The "very few" tourists you mention is the opposite of the "average tourist" I mention, i.e. we are in agreement.
And since when does disliking what I think of as bad architecture (the Main Library and City Hall) mean that I don't like or support good architecture?! This logic is confounding to me. I think it means the exact opposite to what you are implying. i.e. I vigorously support good, even great architecture. Bring it on.
Is there a great supporter than me of good architecture and interesting neighborhoods than me? Heck, I've spent the last two days sending e-mails to the Salvation Army trying to get them to install a double row of trees along PCH at the Kroc Center, and more trees in their parking lot.
Casey L.
· 11 months ago
I always thought the Sumitomo Bank would make a cool all ages music venue.
All Comments
I would love to read the BS that they conjured up when they submitted this pair of separated Siamese twins for a design award (as all completed projects do).
I don't find it in need of destruction. But then, I'm a big fan of this era of architecture...
I do love the Sumitomo building on Redondo. Please find a ClaimJumpers to move into it ;op
Theo, great topic to start the new year.
As for the Main Library and City Hall, these are by far the ugliest most dysfunctional builidings in all of Long Beach, and let's face it, they have a lot of competition. What can you say about buildings which fail to do even the most basic job they should be doing?
Instead of welcoming people to the library and protecting the books, the library does the exact opposite. It ruins the books and scares people away. Who wants to browse through a moldy windowless underground building after surviving the homeless welcoming committee?
And City Hall may be even worse. From the outside it looks like a forlorn airport tower or maybe an Eastern European jail. Inside it's confusing, dangerously unsafe, and well, ugly of course.
And the Centennial Park amphitheater/berm monstrosity? What does this do other than provide a good vantage point for someone with a machine gun and the ability to withstand the smell of urine and vomit?
And Dave, some of us are looking for informed, cultured architectural criticism. With awareness of who Killingworth, Gibbs, and Wing are, what the original program was, etc. Don't we have a Cultural Heritage Commission?
The Civic Center is not perfect, but relatively speaking, is superior architecture to Pike, Cityplace, etc. Any replacement will most likely be far inferior and much smaller. The library has many windows and buildings do not cause homelessness, but I can understand your points. Architecture is an art and there is no one right answer. I just think there are far worse projects we could dispose of first.
Architecture and urban planning have a tremendous impact on the personality and marketability of the city--it is time to buck up and take it seriously! The negative impact and insults to the real history by the fake Cityplace and Pike architecture on what was (and perhaps could still be) a great downtown is almost insurmountable. If we are to be unique and on a par with Santa Monica, Pasadena, we need to play up our unique architectural historical assets (Queen Mary?) and contrast them with real top-notch design of our time. This fake, backwards-looking stuff has got to stop--Disneyland is just down the road and has done a far better job of it.
As for the "fake" architecture that is being lamented, some of it is good and some of it is poor to your average eye (i.e. tourist dollars), but the Pike for example I would consider bad architecture NOT because (well just because) of the way it looks, but rather because of the way it functions. I bet it can still be saved but it actually needs more added to it, not less.
I'm extremely interested in what is "good" about the fake architecture to the "average" eye. Tourists travel all around the world to see great architecture. You're saying we should have bad architecture to draw the tourist dollars? I don't think it works that way.
Yes, the Pike could be improved with appropriate design intervention, and that probably means adding more. That's why I'd rather shoot limited resources at doing something like that than tearing down and replacing the Civic Center.
There is an opportunity to start over, expand and improve Lincoln Park, create an approachable center of government, a Library that inspires, and pay for it at least in part through private development that would also help give life to our civic center.
Sure they'd rather see "good architecture" than "bad," but there is a reason that Thomas Kincade and cute cat websites are so popular, so I don't really trust the artistic judgment of any random group of tourists. ;-)
Oh and most of the people I have talked to want to have a "main library" of at least equal size and function as the present main library. But most librarians and library users don't care about that particular building, but rather about the services it provides.
Dave, how much time have you actually spent in the library? Because it doesn't feel yucky because of its lack of windows at all. It feels cozy, although in an institutional way.
Have you ever said "Hi!" to any of the homeless? Because I have, I've even stopped and talked with them. They really aren't so bad...they are people just like you and I. Alot of them even read books!
Dave, the last thing i would want to see our city do is design with the interest of mainstream "safe" America in mind. Let's leave that for cities in Orange County such as Irvine who already do a great job of it.
Long Beach does have a great history of architecture and that should be celebrated, even if those examples come from the brutalist era and cause people to love it or hate it. The iibrary is functional and so is city hall. It's the area around it including lincoln park that aren't and could use a smart design intervention. The park on top of the library could be an incredible asset but instead most people don't even know it exists.
All the other projects mentioned definitely suck balls. I just hope the people responsible for directing the faux art deco look are gone from the city and if not please let us all know who they are so that we can chase them out of the city with pitchforks.
Allow me to introduce another future blunder to those that aren't familiar with it. It's under development in the downtown and it's name is West Gateway. But instead of faux art deco it's faux modern and looks like a build your own apt complex kit you can buy at walmart for your kids.
And since people seem to care, yes, I'm a librarian, and the people need to be served as well as the assets, i.e. the books. I think the Main Library fails in that regard. Who can even find the front door? Seriously, could you get more unwelcoming than either City Hall or the Library? Phew.
Okay, now let's discuss other buildings. And if anyone can't think of any, what's with the vacant lot at the corner of 4th & Cherry? It's been there for years. If no one's doing anything with it, can't the city buy it and turn it into a dog park?
Speaking of ugly buildings, is there a way to put a moratorium on ugly strip malls? They're still going up everywhere! Those are the real eyesores.
And, Dave in Alamitos Beach, sorry but I have to respond to one of your comments--about tourists not coming to Long Beach for the architecture. (But don't feel singled out; it's a good thing.) I differ from you in that I think it's entirely possible that some tourists--a very few--might come here for the architecture. It's a possibility.
But Dave, even if they don't, should we use that as an excuse to say "Oh, we don't need good architecture--the tourists don't care"? I would say no--that great architecture is for us more than it's for the tourists. We who live here are the ones who will make the most use of it--and when the tourists do show up to visit the Queen Mary or the submarine or that place where the Spruce Goose used to be, they can envy us--and export that envy back to Walla Walla or Seattle or Keokuk.
Believe me, Dave, they will notice if we improve our city with fine architecture. Sure, they won't ALL notice--but enough of them will. Remember what happened in California Heights a few years back? It was voted one of the best neighborhoods in the country (I think the rest of it was "... in which to raise a family") by Sunset magazine. Because some people noticed. And part of the reason they did was the architecture.
That's all. I'll get off my soapbox.
Thanks again for giving all this some thought, folks.
Sorry Theo, but I'm afraid you don't differ from me. You say you think it's possible that a very few tourists might come to Long Beach to see the architecture. I agree. In it's entirety I wrote that "I believe the average tourist coming to Long Beach is NOT coming to Long Beach to 'see great architecture.'" The "very few" tourists you mention is the opposite of the "average tourist" I mention, i.e. we are in agreement.
And since when does disliking what I think of as bad architecture (the Main Library and City Hall) mean that I don't like or support good architecture?! This logic is confounding to me. I think it means the exact opposite to what you are implying. i.e. I vigorously support good, even great architecture. Bring it on.
Is there a great supporter than me of good architecture and interesting neighborhoods than me? Heck, I've spent the last two days sending e-mails to the Salvation Army trying to get them to install a double row of trees along PCH at the Kroc Center, and more trees in their parking lot.