37 comments

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  lbresident

  1 year ago

  I would love to see this happen. I'm in my 30's and I don't believe it will in my lifetime. It would take senior people at the city, at the port, and in congress to all get behind this. Maybe we have a couple councilmembers interested but not the right ones. It would require the 3rd District (currently DeLong) to back it and he won't because the Peninsula residents are terrified of losing their houses in a storm.
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  Andreas

  1 year ago

  This could and will happen if everyone starts to believe in it and share in the vision...even you LB resident. Delong is a puppet. Sure his constituents have cards to play but the rest of the Long Beach have many more cards to play.
  
  To Keith and the district, good work and keep up the pressure. To Long Beach residents, spread the word and fight the power!!
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  Dave in Alamitos Beach

  1 year ago

  Well I'm almost 50 and I have no problem believing this could happen in the next ten years. As they say, nothing can stop an idea whose time has come. It only takes a few key people to say "why not?"
  
  I don't think every element of this design will happen, but hopefully a lot of it can. What I like the most about this strategy is the overall pragmatism. Give the port some of what they want, and give the citizens some of what they want, and while you're at it, give the politicians some of what they want.
  
  About redirecting the river to the port, the port doesn't want it to happen, and the city only cares about the pollution, so I'm sure there is some way to say, okay the city takes the water, but the port helps the city clean it up.
  
  And for the breakwater, it sounds reasonable to say, help us take it down, and then you can have the rocks. Oh, but leave a few to shore up the oil islands, and the peninsula, and you can have the rest to fill in more of the port area.
  
  And while we're at it, tell Mr. Higginbotham to plan for the oil islands to become a string of city parks, connected by a water taxi funded by the port, when there is no more oil to pump out. Oh, and maybe the new filled in eastern boundary of the port can have a bike path, and a long narrow park with hills and tall trees to give people something to look at from the shore other than the cranes and shipping containers. Why not dream big?!
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  bill from LB

  1 year ago

  Dreaming of the way it used to be, rolling surf, clean water, yeahh. WAKE UP PEOPLE IT IS NOT A DREAM, YOUR'E HAVING A NIGHTMARE! What else is missing from those 75 year old picures of our beautiful surfy beaches ? Open land and a HALF MILLION PEOPLE. This is not 1920. Where will these beachgoers park? Where will the extra police come from? They will be needed. Check out the problems with fighting that happen in H.B. every summer, and they don't have a blue line making a straight shot from the hood to the shoreline. Look around at the gangs and gafitti at our exsisting parks. I don't know if 'Giget' or 'Moon Doggy' will use the beach but 'Lil Killer' and 'Mad Dog' will. What about lifeguards and paramedics? And traffic, guess we will have to widen Ocean Blvd. Sorry to be the spoiler but this really is one of those "be careful what you ask for' deals. Go 5 min up PCH to Seal Beach if you want to surf. Now go back to sleep.
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  lbresident

  1 year ago

  I think downtown trying to be like Seal Beach isn't practical or desirable. But having an atmosphere like Santa Monica only better is. Urban with a beach would be a very good result that would set us apart.
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  LBRez

  1 year ago

  Bill were you driving the "Big Yellow Taxi" Joni Mitchell sang about? (for you younger readers, "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot..." http://artists.letssingit.com/joni-mitchell-big... ) FYI your phantom gangbangers can already get here--why don't they? Because there are no waves? They surf?
  
  "If you can dream it you can do it." Walt Disney
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  Andreas

  1 year ago

  Ahhhh Bill, you must be one of our fine east long beach residents living on land that you think might be affected by the breakwater coming down. Or perhaps you're just negative for the sake of negative and you've given up on dreaming.
  
  I'll take a stab at your questions.
  
  Parking: Oil breached $110 a barrel. The future involves alternative modes of transport, stop thinking car and start thinking train, bus, bike, skateboard, scooters and the almighty two feet you stand on. If you really want parking, there is enough room down there to fit in parking, just like they do at other beaches.
  
  Police: No problem. With all the extra tax money the beach drives i'm sure they can afford a few more Ponches and Johns. Same goes for lifeguards and paramedics. Just normal beach operations my friend.
  
  Gangbangers: That same issue exists from here all the way up and through Santa Monica. It's not slowing them down.
  
  The only thing keeping Long Beach the sleepy Iowa by the sea model are people that think like you and question things to death. To quote a great movie line "Get busy living, or get busy dying".
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  Bill from LB

  1 year ago

  So let me get this straight, With no garantee of waves returning if the breakwater was removed... you want to commercialize our open beaches to the extent of being able to generate enough money to build parking lots, hire more fulltime police officers and paramedics and throw in the lifeguards, trucks, equipment and ways to deal with all the traffic. WHO are you people, developers? surfers? I think you just want to believe. Hey I have dreams too but one needs to look at all the facts to make them a reality or it's just fantasy. Sorry but I also questioned the weapons of mass destruction thing. Ask the questions even if some people call you a wet blanket.
  And no I don't live on the penninsula.
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  RKJ

  1 year ago

  Fine, Fine , Fine.... lets just leave it all be. Afterall, look at all of the great progress the LB coastline has had under the previous leaders and their way of thinking. We've got the wonderful Pike, tons of empty commercial properties on Pine in the heart of downtown, unusable beaches, brand new condos that they can't give away, 6 "delayed" development projects, a train that brings people from the hoods inland who can't afford a cocktail or a decent meal... but they can afford a $2 bus fare. The tax paying, working, good people of LB won't even go downtown because they're afraid of being shot, Heck, we've pissed away our greatest asset for the last 70 years, no reason to start changing things at this point! LB, just stay the course... damned these innovative positive thinkers!
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  lbresident

  1 year ago

  This is off topic a bit. Don't care. I live in East LB (one of the waterfront areas a lot of you hate so much.) I pretty much never go downtown. You know what would get me downtown, spending money, etc. A Nordstroms. Why this hasn't happened I don't know. I realize the area has a lot of low income residents. But I would prefer to go downtown than drive to South Coast. I just have no reason to. Just had to rant for a second...
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  Dave in Alamitos Beach

  1 year ago

  Sorry, I know I shouldn't take the bait, but I really have to question some of the "logic" going on here. If the waves don't come back when the breakwater comes down, then there is no issue with the "commercialization" of our beaches. Worst case is that the water stays the same way it is now, best case is that water quality goes up and some of the waves come back. If that leads to a need to put in more shuttle buses and hire more security, well then, let's hope Long Beach gets such problems!
  
  Oh, and I hate to have to break it to people but the gangbangers are already here. If we don't fix up the beaches, we still have the gangbangers. If we do fix up the beaches, we MAY have some tourists and more beachgoing Long Beachers. I think it's a risk worth taking.
  
  Oh, and why don't we have a Nordstrom's? I'm not sure if that's a joke, but we don't have a Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn, Restoration Hardware, Macys, Bloomingdale's, Bed Bath & Beyond, etc. downtown. The stores don't go in until the money/income is there, and that isn't there until people want to live there, and that doesn't happen until the people want to live there for a reason, i.e. better water and beaches. Come on people!
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  lbresident

  1 year ago

  Not a joke. I think it's also a bit of chicken and egg. If there was a Nordstrom, people would shop there. That would lead to other shops. That would make it more desirable to live there. We have the high end condos. We need the retail.
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  bill from LB

  1 year ago

  RKJ, you are 100% right! This 'bring back the waves' is another 'if we build it they will come' LB pipe dream just like the other failures you mention, but this time it's not city's idea but the 'innovative positive thinkers' and dreamers that paint this fantasy. Once again I ask that you look at this logically before we get too excited. Hey I'm a LB native and I love the outdoors and nice beaches (been to many all over the world).I also believe we need alot of other changes in this city before we spend millions creating a beach just so you can show it off to your visiting relatives cause thats really what this is all about. Honestly how many of you dreamers and positive thinkers would really swim and surf even if you could. All warm and fuzzy talk.
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  RKJ

  1 year ago

  Show me 1 (just 1!) REAL beach community on the west coast that looks/feels like LB's. Most don't even have the advantage of having urbania butting up against the water. We could have the greatest place on the west coast. ANY and ALL surfable, beachable lifestyle/communities that have the beach as it's core asset have "contibutors to society" visiting and living in them. The thugs are never around because they can't afford to even step in. Vibrant beach communities are always the most desireable & expensive areas of their cities. LB has a few worry-worts that ignorantly protect their little domains, while the rest of the entire city suffers tremendously. To date, we have ruined and abused our greatest asset to the point where it has become our greatest liability. A castostrophe beyond comparison. We should fess-up and get it fixed NOW !
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  Dave in Alamitos Beach

  1 year ago

  Geez people, no one is expecting Waikiki or even Huntington Beach. We're only asking for better water and a more vibrant beach scene. Don't get mad at the people who want to make things better.
  
  And as for it costing millions? Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it comes out of the city's coffers. Why doesn't the Natural Resources Defense Council sue the Army Corps of Engineers for giving us 50 years of lousy water due to the breakwater. I think dismantling the breakwater would be cheaper than class action level punitive damages...
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  Jenny Stockdale

  1 year ago

  Dear Bill,
  You're absolutely right, we should keep the water as toxic as possible and change nothing, because nothing can be done here better than it currently is. Let our children swim in Mercury and DDT for the next 50 years! Let the river mouth deluge us with trash! For nothing is wrong with Long Beach. The WalMart that is the lone commercial business downtown needs no competitors and the empty condos will save electricity! That makes undeniable sense. Maybe I should chronicle your astute, visionary notions?
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  bill from LB

  1 year ago

  Man you guys just reply with more pie in the sky. RKj once again you are right. This is a matter of people (you) that care about their little domains ( the beachfront, the Shore, Naples etc.) while the rest of the entire city( westside, northtown, etc) suffers tremendously.
  And if you think the 'less desirable' citizens from the inner cities won't populate the beach look who use our parks and beaches now. Oh and vibrant beach communities are always very very expensive to live in, but I'm guessing the majority of these replys are from snobs who see a future Long Beach where they don't have homeless, illegals and poor people because it will be too expensive for them to live here. Once again pull your heads out of that pristine sand. Do you guys ever go out of the 'Good' parts of LB.
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  Andreas

  1 year ago

  Bill, for the record i grew up in Orange County, lived in HB, NB, etc. I have fond memories of surfing, swimming, beach parties, bonfires, moonlit makeout sessions, etc, etc. It's an amazing experience for a young kid. I feel bad for any family that lives near our "beach" that can't experience the same thing without packing up the car and having to drive to another city to get their fill of beach living.
  
  Even though it's somewhat of a separate subject, in regards to retail in the DT we used to have good stores here, along the lines of what was mentioned above. They were incentivized, gave it a shot, then moved out because the area wasn't sustainable for them.
  
  The solution won't come from just bringing in more people with more money. that's just a depressing waiting game. Great areas pop up around the world not because they sit around and wait for that one big fish so all the other fish can follow. Broadway and 4th street aren't getting better because people are waiting for a nordstroms to spring up. Sure, it's a different scale but you have to start somewhere to create momentum. there are no shortcuts to creating an authentic community vibe.
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  Andreas

  1 year ago

  Bill you snuck that last comment in before i was done with mine, you sneaky bastard.
  
  At first glance after reading your last reply i wanted to say "bill, you're a fuckin' moron!!" But i won't bill, i won't stoop to that level....yet.
  
  Instead i will offer another perspective for you to consider.
  
  The reason people complain about less desirables is because there is nothing else around to mask it out. Take DT, we have homeless people walking around, but the reason it's a big deal is because there isn't enough going on to mask it out. Same thing with the beach. Ever been to HB on a crowded weekend? Trust me there are less desirables that come from the lower socio/economic areas of the OC but they are masked by everyone else. that is diversity and diversity is good. For long beach to be one of the most diverse cities in the country, isn't it weird that it's not represented on the beach for example.
  
  If you want to hide the white elephant in the room, activate the room with other shit that makes people forget about the big elephant, or look past it because they're having a great time.
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  lbresident

  1 year ago

  Actually I'd love the future of downtown LB to be one without homeless, illegals and poor people.
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  bill from LB

  1 year ago

  Dear Jenny, you just don't read well. I am not mad, I have never said I don't want change in LB I'm just trying to figure out if this plan would work thats all. And if there is Mercury and DDT they would be in the soil not the water. Everyone talks like we have the Hudson river here. The worst pollution is after the rains, in the summer it's the plastic crap (not toxic to us) in the water. Not pretty but perfectly safe to swim in. Lets see what can be done about the dumping in the San Gabriel and LA rivers that end up in our water. See the problem is people like you, I'll bet even if we had this beautiful beach you still would'nt let your kids swim because you heard thru the Surfrider Foundation there was still toxic chemicals from all those years of being a "catastrophe beyond comparison" then we would discussing a multi -million dollar dreging project. Move to Laguna.
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  LB Ports

  1 year ago

  Wow. Quite a bit of controversy here. On the issue of port expansion you can find some facts to back up your opinions at http://blog.cleanandsafeports.org/
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  bill from LB

  1 year ago

  andreas , andreas, andreas.
  It's nice to here about your Leave it to Beaver childhood in the OC but I was born and raised in the LBC and this is a different animal. Diversity? Mask out the losers? WTF? Is that like if your car is making a noise you just turn up the radio and the problem is solved, you my friend are a knucklehead. Still no one has solutions to any of the problems Ii've brought up, all I'm reading is anger toward me for asking questions.
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  Andreas

  1 year ago

  ahhhh bill bill bill.
  
  sorry i didn't know i would have to give you the dummies guide to my last email. i won't forget from here on out. you can take my email literal and blow it out of proportion or you can see it for what it is. by having a diverse community no one stands out, get it. black, white or brown, rich, poor or working class. you know why people always bitch about riding the blue line but always say how rad it is to ride the subway in NY, see the above. lets not get in a tiff here, i hope that you see my point more clearly now.
  
  and most of the problems that you're bringing up aren't being looked at as problems by the people on this board, just fyi. They're being looked at as benefits. Our city is dirt poor, ask the mayor if he wouldn't like to see more attention brought to our fine city to drive up revenue and give him and his staff more to work with. Having LB overcome it's piss poor reputation isn't a bad thing.
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  bill from LB

  1 year ago

  Andreas , Don't need the dummies guide, I guess I get what you meant about diversity now that you made it clearer. Ya know we agree more than you think, everything you want for LB I do too, I just don't think sinking the breakwater is the answer that everyone thinks it is. Theres so much more involved. So all of you dreamers (your not the only one) keep listening to John Lennon's 'Imagine' .
  Peace. bye bye.
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  bill from LB

  1 year ago

  Adreas, fyi.. the tourists think it's "rad" to ride the subways, the citizens of NY think it smells and is dangerous and is a necesarry evil. They use it because they have to.
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  Jenny Stockdale

  1 year ago

  Bill,
  
  I read well, but thank you for your concern.
  Would you like to talk about this? If so, please e-mail me: Jenny.Stockdale@gmail.com.
  
  I'm concerned that some of your information is less-than-accurate and am interested to know where you got it from.
  Also, I would like to know if you have any recommendations on how to fix Long Beach, if you think it needs fixing? Do you have a plan?
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  Jennifer Stockdale

  1 year ago

  I do have to admit I made a major error in this story. Higginbotham's plan does not intend to shift the mouth of the L.A. River, as I had initially stated. Instead, his idea addresses the problems associated with the river and the breakwater, giving the Port of Long Beach incentive to help fix these problems. The error has been corrected online.
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  Dave in Alamitos Beach

  1 year ago

  Not shifting the mouth of the river, but getting the port to help the city deal with the pollution is what I had proposed above. I also think that there must be a way to get every city upriver to contribute to the pollution cleanup, either by doing it themselves in advance, or paying for their share of the cleanup based on the size of their population.
  
  But getting back to the larger pragmatism of the approach, the main thing is to make a grand overall proposal a win-win for everybody. No one will get exactly what they want, but hopefully a large part of what they want.
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  Juice

  1 year ago

  i totally have crabs and i caught them on Pine street!
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  bill from LB

  1 year ago

  Since we started discussing this 'restore the beach' topic (theory) last week there has been multiple shootings and murders in Long Beach including the murder of an 11y /o boy. Now tell me again how your war on fecal coliforms is going. I have an idea, maybe you could send the Surfrider people into the hoods with their clipboards and see what neglected LB (gangs,infrastruture, schools,crime,sub par non code housing etc) has to say about money and resources going toward your neglected beaches . Its all about priority. Lets work on straightening the inner-city cestpool before the beach cestpool.
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  Jenny Stockdale

  1 year ago

  Bill, just for clarification, Keith Higginbotham's plan seeks to use the Port of Long Beach's power and financial resources to increase circulation and water quality along our coast, while decreasing L.A. River mouth pollution. The port would, ideally, be obliged to do this as a mitigation project in return for expansion (something that is required for port expansion by law anyway).
  The Port of Long Beach, as a department of the city, does have an obligation to keep its harm to a minimum and serve city residents through commerce according to the Tidelands Trust Act, but it has no interest in funding mitigation for the social issues you mention above. Those issues are presumably handled by an entirely different city department using finances from the general fund -- allocations that handle policing, construction, etc...
  So you see, this has really nothing to do with Surfrider (a nonprofit organization in no way affiliated with the city of Long Beach), and although the port is using city resources (because it is a department of the city) it will not be using money from the general fund to spearhead Higginbotham's plan (it probably won't be using his plan anyway). Therefore, those residents from the "hood" who you speak of would have no qualms about how the money is spent, because it will not be their money.
  The Port of Long Beach makes upwards of $90 million in profit annually -- money it traditionally reinvests in itself. The point being, it has the money to spend and if given the right incentive, it may do so. But this incentive does not include correcting, "gangs, infrastru[c]ture, schools, crime, sub par non code housing, etc..."
  That said, I think both notions (bettering our beach front and bettering the segments of our "neglected LB") should be priorities. And I agree, the shootings and loss of life here are tragedies that need immediate attention.
  However, this article doesn't focus on ridding Long Beach of crime, poverty and the like, and although I appreciate your extensive attention, I think your comments are out of place.
  Maybe you should take your observations on the social ills of Long Beach to City Council meetings on Tuesday nights. I think it would be a much better forum for you, save the fact that you must state your full name and address.
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  Dave in Alamitos Beach

  1 year ago

  I just want to add, if we're not all sick of the discussion, that I DO think there is a correlation between a healthy, vibrant beach scene and reduced poverty and crime. It's not much different than the "broken windows" theory of blighted neighborhoods. Unfortunately for us, what we've got right now is the sandy equivalent of broken windows.
  
  But, as Jenny so eloquently states, the harbor can contribute to the beautification of Long Beach, but only up to a point, but fortunately that includes the beach. So why not come up with a good plan to help them contribute?
  
  A good beach leads to good recreation which leads to good neighborhoods which leads to good citizenship which leads to less gang warfare....
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  Andreas

  1 year ago

  To add to the added, i believe in the sphere of influence. We may not be able to solve drugs, gangs, etc, but there are things that are within our control like improving our water quality and beaches. The end result being that other things come along for the ride, basically what Dave is saying as well.
  
  These aren't new concepts and they shouldn't be considered pipe dreams. Other people have dealt with much worse and turned around their situation.
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  bill from LB

  1 year ago

  Jenny , I am well aware that the port could care less about our social ills, but do you? I brought the issue up to demonstrate priorities. You obviously have not lived in LB very long. Once you have been here for awhile and fully understand the politics in LB you probably will be as cynical as me! So what you're saying is the port will pay for all this , really, like so many other projects where the city ends up holding the bag. I have seen others ride into town on their white horse and jump on the ..lets fix LB without affecting the cities bottom line bandwagon and our bandwagon is still not fixed and the fixes are still costing us. All you write about are theories and if this or if thats. Example: Flusing and circulation? Only a theory but you make it sound so simple and effective that once we take down that old breakwater wall the good water will come in and flush out the bad water,but one of the most polluted beaches in SoCal is AVALON and its on the edge of an island. Talk about flushing! You write "it (the port) has the money to spend and IF given the right incentive, it MAY do so" This is part of your great plan ? You need a real plan and to be honest with the people of LB about what this could cost.
  I 'm sorry if I don't have the answers Jenny but I don't know how to cure cancer either but I know Mexican treatment centers won't work.You come up with a real plan to stop the cities up river from using the flood control channel as their trash can and then we can work on the beaches.
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  Jenny Stockdale

  1 year ago

  Bill,
  I'm flattered, but this is not about me.
  
  In fact, it's not even my plan. The copyright belongs to Keith Higginbotham.
  I'm a bit concerned now that the story was hard to follow. Did you have trouble reading it?
  There's a big segment in his plan that aims to collect and recycle the trash in the flood control channel, bringing it to the SERRF plant down the street to turn it into energy. By doing so, the water going out to sea (and past the shores of Santa Catalina Island) would be monumentally cleaner than it is now.
  Granted, it doesn't stop northern cities from polluting, but that effort hasn't been so effective as of late. I believe the last major efforts to beautify the river were in 2001 and 2005, and little change has come of both endeavors.
  As for the breakwater, no one really knows for certain what modifications would be the most sufficient, but one highly regarded engineer's opinion suggests knocking an 1800-ft gap east of Queen's Gate in the wall and leaving the rest of it in tact. If you want information on this, let me know.
  And, that's a whole other mess, involving city, state and federal cooperation. I never meant to make the procedure sound simple and am sorry if I did.
  Further, as I noted above, the port probably won't adopt this plan in its entirety, but maybe there a few new things the city and the port will have to think about for their 2030 plan.
  Shooting at every idea that comes in on a white horse isn't exactly an effective way to change things. Communicating about what the problems are and how they "could" be fixed is at least a start, right?
  
  Theories perpetuate testing, which instigate laws and provoke change.
  
  I know you don't have all the answers (I don't think anyone expects you to, and I'm not claiming to either). And, aside from your personal attacks on my character, you seem to have some solid ideas for reform. It may be in your best interest to get involved and publish your own theories, especially if you don't agree with the ones in circulation.
  
  But, then again, I suppose this isn't about you, either.
  
  If you have anything else you would like to discuss, please, contact me. I would love to hear from you.
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  Kristoffer Stetson

  1 year ago

  Check out www.lbsurfrider.org. Let's sink this breakwater and restore the shore in Long Beach. Wealthy Peninsula residents shouldn't be holding the rest of Long Beach hostage so they can enjoy slightly cheaper flood insurance premiums.
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