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Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Kelson — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:55:53 -0000

Diane, when you write "Or do you not believe they hate us", can you tell me to whom you are referring? Who is "they"? It's an ambiguous pronoun and I don't know what you are saying. Do you mean "the independent sources" or do you mean the earlier instance of "radical Muslims"? If it is the latter, could you tell me how many there are that have been coming here? Four? Five? Twenty? Thousands? Millions? Oh my! I mean, we weren't able to keep those sneaky Jews out during the 20th century, so how are we going to keep these guys out? And look what happened when we couldn't keep Jews out! We can't let that happen again!

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piet — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:35:50 -0000

Rachel one more thing, The battle of Mogadishu was originally a mission to provide the food to get to the starving people that the warlords were taking. After Pres. Clinton took over he handed the responsibility to the u.n. and brought down the original number of troops from25,000 to 30,000. to 1200, That gave the u.n. authority to tell our commanders what to do. The mission changed when pakistani troops were killed. Now the u.s.mission was to search for these warlords. The problem is that the troops lacked the proper weapons which had been pulled back earlier. When the U.S. commander requested the need for more weapons his request was denied by Les Aspin the secretary of defense in the Clinton regime. We were a skeleton crew in Somalia. We should have fought all out or get out, and not pass the responsibilty for our troops to the U.N.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

piet — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:59:44 -0000

Rachel, I guess the question you are asking is if you can speak up and make your feeling known about the war? You dont need to get my permission to do that. So I hope that answers your question, so you can continue to post Okay. Just because I say,
words do mean things and that what may be said can embolden the enemy must have been misinterpret as you are not allowed to speak. Most of the people that I try to talk to about the iraq war couldn't care less or have no idea. At times it makes me feel frustrated too, but my head wont explode there is to much of that going on in iraq by those we are fighting. I am really glad that this website is available. It gives me the chance to voice my feelings. You talked about japan, Germany and the south, if you would have spoken up against all those evil empires and govts. I guarantee your voice would have been silenced Aren't you glad we live in the USA. One of the key things that the enemy wants us to do is to lose heart and for our leaders to say things that denigrate the troops and the mission. John kerry is an example of someone with a loose tongue,and some more examples Harry reid and John Murtha. Our troops are not stupid and they do not go into houses and kill anyone they desire or proclaim the war has been lost, even as our brave troops are still over there fighting. All these comments have embolden the enemy! for all of us who support the troops we should make sure they are not forgotten. Lnc. Cpl Jason Dunham should be a house hold name not Brittney Spears. Has any one heard of Rafael Peralta, how about Danny Dietz, Peter Wagler, Katy Soensken, Louis Qualls, Jeff Starr, John House, Steven Mc Gowan, Amy Duerksen
Rodney Jones, Daniel Noble, Mike hook, Jason Chappel, do I need to go on? For those who are anti-war would you discourage young people to go into the arm forces. These guys I met at Camp Pendleton were so polite and helpful and intense. Alot of them had no idea want they wanted but they found direction in the marines. Even though they were much younger than I am I look up to them. Go on the internet and find out about these fallen heroes, did you know that Steven McGowan had a program that he gathered beanie babies from back home and distributed them to iraq kids. Check it out!

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Rachel Powers — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:58:21 -0000

I am so frustrated that I think my head is about to explode.

Listen, Diane, I never said that your missionary friend was lying. I am saying that I'm not sure that I agree with her assessment. I don't think that anyone can claim to understand the aims of an entire culture, or even a subculture of that culture, because even subcultures (like islamic radicals) are made up of countless individuals who have different aims and opinions and motivations (like the guys who blow themselves up because it means that their starving parents will get a stipend as a reward.)

I am also highly suspicious of any argument that encourages people to be afraid of dark men coming over here and taking our women. Do I *really* need to explain why that is?

And again, you keep putting up this crap about how people with only second-hand knowledge should keep their mouths shut. Well, your knowledge is second-hand as well. The fact is that I've talked to plenty of vets. PLENTY. And MY vets disagree with YOUR vets. Deal with it. Are those vets that are anti-war guilty of sedition?

Another thing, Piet: I was an infant at the tail end of the vietnam war. I didn't spit on anyone. I didn't call anyone a baby-killer. I didn't refuse to hire vietnam vets. I was drooling on my pacifier and eating pureed carrots. So don't presume to lecture me about what I should have learned or what I (or people like me) might have done in 1970.

None of you--NONE OF YOU--have chosen to answer the questions that I have posed again and again, and I'm not posting until they are answered: WHAT DO YOU DO IF YOU FEEL THAT THE WAR IS WRONG? WHAT DO YOU DO IF IT IS A MATTER OF CONSCIENCE? AREN'T I OBLIGATED TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST WHAT I SEE AS UNNECESSARY DEATH?

I ask you to consider that your attitude grants ridiculous power to governments: the minute they enter a war, all criticism is immoral, all dissent is unpatriotic. When things blew up in Somalia you didn't hear a single Republican saying, "Don't upset the troops!" They said, "THE MISSION IS STUPID, bring them home, for Christ's sake!" Why is that? Were all those senators and congresspeople anti-military?

So again: If I were a japanese citizen after pearl harbor should I support the emperor without question? If I'm a German citizen am I required to cheer for Hitler? If I was born in Virginia am I morally obligated to fight for Jeff Davis?

I pray that one of you guys will stop spouting feel-good platitudes and answer those questions. Until then, I can only assume that you *can't* answer them.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

piet — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:30:44 -0000

Hello Andy, I love this,you know when people usually argue about an issue, they just talk over each other, this way I can make my comment and than you can make yours, so my question to you is since you think that the patriot act has suppressed free speech amongst other things could you please give me evidence of that? Is it possible that our evil Govt. is monitoring our conversation right now. Just the fact that you are against the war would put you on there list. Since this war has been going on for 5 years now, has your phone been tapped? please respond to my comments instead of calling them Orwellian, that's to easy. Diane it was absoulute blessing from the event yesterday, and remember when two or more are gathered in my name, I am in the midst of them. one more new comment I would like to mention,. It is irritating to hear someone say that they support the troops but do not support the war. I believe that idea is a lesson that many anti-war folks learned in the treatment of the vietnam vets who were so disrespected when returning from Vietnam. So instead of straddling the fence, just go back to how you dealt with the troops when they came back to vietnam and we will show support to them and they will know who really cares for them. I hear alot about code pink but have they welcomed back any troops?

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Guest — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:59:13 -0000

diane
look no further than any of the many crusades to find popes telling their followers to kill in the name of their "god" as for your "high ranking officer reading this blog" comment, i call bullshit. since you say he is reading this perhaps (if he actually exists) he will comment on here to back you up. but i doubt it. brigitte gabriel is a racist and your hero worship of her doesnt do anything to change my earlier assessment of you.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Diane — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:07:34 -0000

Way to go Piet! Take the high road, I'm with you. howardx and Andy are big on spelling and name calling which takes no courage from the anonymity of a keyboard. Andy had no response to my post accept to correct my spelling! I was a poor kid who went ot public schools in the 70's that didn't offer Latin. In case my poor spelling caused confusion: Non sequitur (Latin) in formal logic, is an argument where its conclusion does not follow from its premises.

So Rachel- I was offended that Kelson would use slaves who were taken against their will, treated worse than cattle in comparison to the radical Muslims who come here WILLINGLY. I just HAVE to ask one last question. Why would that missionary lie to me, and why was it corraborated from other independant sources if it is so outrageous? And how did we not see 911 coming? Why did we not believe it was possible they could be so cunning, to use our own system of trust to run their agenda of hate? Or do you not believe they hate us.

BTW Andy- No Catholics under the direction of the Pope or JFK ever blew up a building or high jacked planes to fly into any symbol of commerce or government. I've never heard any Pope instruct Catholics to kill Americans as a way to get to heaven. Brigette Gabriel has more credibility than any of you. You can not dispute her experience, her courage (face to face) and her education. If you want to stay misinformed hating your government, with your rose colored glasses on about Islam--go ahead. MY worldview is quite optimistic if the right people (congress and president) who realize who our acutally enemies are and I trust our Military. I dislike how Bush handled many things, it's embarrassing the misinformation he AND CONGRESS based their decisions on. Of course we can have perfect hindsight to see the mistakes. The truth is we have to leave that Iraq stable.

I spent the yesterday showing appreciation to 700+ young Marines with a huge party. As always, they were polite, strong, and courageous. That's how I like to spend my time, off-setting the anti war folks by encouraging them. They hear it and have told us, that when people don't support the mission they are fighting for, it feels like they aren't supporting them. That says it all! All the negativity effects them too. I hope you would agree, they don't deserve that.

One high ranking officer "in the know" who has read this blog told us that you people have no idea what you're talking about. That you are nieve and mis-informed. Who should I believe; him and Brigette Gabriel who have lived it, or you spellling champs who get your info second hand. Not a tough choice.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Andy — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:04:23 -0000

Unfotunately, Piet, there are so many Orwellian points in your posts (failure=success) that I can't possibly address them all, so I'll stick with the one that grinds me the most...your beloved "Patriot Act" and the extraordinary abuse of constitutional guarantees and trashing of the Geneva convention. The idea that we can suspend basic civil liberties in an effort to win an undefined victory renders any protection you might currently feel from the "Islamofascist" threat moot.
The extraordinary executive power that this administration claims to hold has thrashed any thoughts that they are protecting us from an external threat and has shown that they are using it for political expediency.
We have not won, we have lost. True conservatives understand this, but fear-based, mob mentality fascists are OK with losing their rights when they know the knock on the door, the tapped phone call, or the monitored personal records won't be theirs. For now.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

piet — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:57:00 -0000

Hello howardx, thanks for the correction but I hope that does not close your mind to what I said, please share your thoughts, and kelson the only straw man I know is in the wizard of oz. Good news from iraq, this recent battle has come with success because Sadr is willing to stop fighting. He issued a nine point plan that sounds very encouraging, and just yesterday he refused to lay down his weapons. This is just another reason to stay tough in this battle. Reading the different papers and hearing news reports in the last week since this latest battle begun which by the way was initiate by the iraq govt. seems to spin this story negatively, like violence increases in iraq or did the iraq govt. jump the gun. As I stated before the constant negative news heard from the likes of the media and the anti -war folks does play a factor. I wonder what the papers will write about this particular good news from iraq, and I would like to hear your comments on this topic, since my credibility is in question than please straighten me out, but please use logic and not name calling, thats too easy God Bless

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Guest — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 10:53:54 -0000

its shiite piet, not shite, not knowing that is another knock to your already dubious credibility on this topic.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Kelson — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 09:54:47 -0000

Hey Piet, what's with the straw man?

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

piet — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 03:14:40 -0000

As I read so many of these comments, I notice a consistent thread with those who disagree with my comments, they seem to blame every thing on President Bush and republicans. You might say President Bush has started the war in Iraq because he is lining the pockets of his cronies through the large oil profits which if it is the case than I would say that is evil, and he is evil. I don't believe that of course which maybe in some of your minds you may think I'm naive. If you agreed in the presidents decision into going into afghanastan as worthy but think the reason for him going into iraq is evil is not logical. Someone who is evil will always make decisions based on there own selfish interest and could not care less how many people are hurt. So lets talk about the Presidents reason for going into Afghanastan and iraq, 9/11 spured this on but just as in iraq there was something left undone. Osama was left in power to doing his evil deeds. He did many evil deeds before the Bush adminstration was in office and of course the worst evil after the change in adminstration happened His plan was not taken seriously enough for many years except for a few bombs. During this time (1990's) Saddam also was not taken seriously enough, again bombing iraq for 4 or 5 days in 1998. He was still in power and was rattling his saber. After 9/11, we all felt a sense that evil has hurt our land. The possibilty that too many people where unaware of this danger from both adminstrations reveals to me that the President could not leave things undone. We have never been hit like 9/11 before and hopefully we will never get hit like that again. When President Clinton was able to find the perpetrator of the first world trade center bombing he was elated, but did you think that by arresting him was the end to this incident, of course not or if we do get Osama that the terrorist will put there weapons away, I don't think so. Both adminstration agreed that Saddam was a problem. In fact President Clinton authorized a regime change in iraq. How do you do that ? If president Clinton went into iraq to oust Saddam obviously he would have had to also build up a large enough force to do it. I don't think that he was willing to because of the risk of losing his popularity. When troops get killed that puts a strain on our country. We are a country of fast food and good times, who's popular or the latest story to hit the front pages. It would never be popular to go to war for a long period of time. Just look at the swipes the democrats are taking on Sen. Mc Cains comments on the war that he would be willlins to keep the troops in there as long as 100 years to win the war. So many of us were in favor of this war, but because of the violence and "the bad news" we are growing weary. The terrorist who want to kill us are a worldwide movement perpetrated by Muslim extremists. We have to stay on the offense, if we let our guard down once than we will have another 9/11. As one comment I heard that the Patriot Act has hurt Americans more than helped them shows me how we want to go back to making it easier for these terrorist to act. One more thing, another comment I heard is that we are in the way of a civil war. (Sunni against Shite)
Since Saddam was a Sunni, the Sunni's had all the priveliges in that country. The shites were treated badly. This rift has always been there, but today Sunnis are working with Shites and Vice a versa. Of course there was alot of violence perpetrated by both groups earlier but this really was spured on by the Al Qaeda by blowing up the shite mosque. Today Maliki is authorizing the iraq troops to take on Sadr's fighters in Basra. Why I bring this up is because Sadr is a shite and so is Maliki. Sadr was in iran in exile for awhile and Maliki met up with the iranian President, but he is willing to take on these terrorist even though they are shite. That is good news. Until next time, dont forget to Pray for troops.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Andy — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 02:20:34 -0000

Oh BTW, Diane, what's a "non-sequatore"? My 10th grade Latin teacher would not be pleased.

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Andy — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 01:52:41 -0000

You mean the same Brigitte Gabriel who said:

"...you cannot trust having a Muslim in office. When he has to make a decision to either be loyal to the United States or be loyal to Islam."

They were saying the same thing about JFK and the Pope. There are rational fears and irrational fears. There will, no doubt, be more horrific violent attacks. But ridiculous prejudices do not contribute to anything except convenient stereotypes and mob mentality...

Sorry, Diane, no jokes and sarcasm this time. Your narrow world view is just so sad.

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Rachel Powers — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 01:00:19 -0000

"How can you even joke about what Black people (not just men) suffered by being kidnapped and sold into slavery, sometimes by their own people, to greedy people in many countries (not just the US)."

--actually, he was joking about your theory that sex-crazed, murderous arabs are coming to impregnate our women with mini-terrorists.

"then make an intelligent argument, not just irrelevant points and sarcastic, caustic remarks."

--we've made a lot of them. We don't get much in the way of a response, other than pronouncements that you are exiting the conversation once and for all.

"A lot has been said about fear, and being pro-war. Just because someone is aware of a potential threat, doesn't mean they are in fear, just prepared."

--find me the place where we said anything contradicting this.

"You arm chair quarter backs should not shut up, just take responsibility for what your complaints and protests could do."

--hate to break it to you, Diane, but you are every bit the armchair quarterback yourself. Have you been involved in the fighting? No, of course not: you've just had some conversations with people who were. So have we.

And for Christ's sake, how many times do we have to explain to you that our complaints and protests are, for us, A MATTER OF CONSCIENCE? Do I think that you are a war-mongerer? A murderer? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean that I don't feel that disagreeing with you may actually save some lives. And by the way, that doesn't make me a friend of the insurgents.

I recommend rereading comment #37.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Kelson — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 00:41:49 -0000

Please explain to me all your book-learnin' about the Yellow Peril, too!

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Diane — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 00:07:59 -0000

Kelson- Talk about a non-sequatore! How can you even joke about what Black people (not just men) suffered by being kidnapped and sold into slavery, sometimes by their own people, to greedy people in many countries (not just the US). To denigrate that awful blight on the worlds history to make try to make fun of someone..... that must be due to your lack of an educated dispute.

If any of you had even one conversation with Brigitte Gabriel that I mentioned in Post 59 the lightbulb would go on. I don't live in fear, she did for all of her childhood, barely escaped being beheaded at 13. She has studied, reported, written and spoken of it. She has a multitude of links and references to support her research, data, etc. on her website. www.americancongressfortrut...

Why don't you spend some time reading, researching what she has to say. If any of you "we're not worried" bunch have the credentials to dispute what she reports, then make an intelligent argument, not just irrelevant points and sarcastic, caustic remarks.

A lot has been said about fear, and being pro-war. Just because someone is aware of a potential threat, doesn't mean they are in fear, just prepared. I am not pro-war. I hate it, I wish it wasn't necessary... ever. But it is. You arm chair quarter backs should not shut up, just take responsibility for what your complaints and protests could do.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Kelson — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:07:50 -0000

Oh Diane, you are so right! And that's why all those black men came over here from Africa, too!

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Sean — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:27:17 -0000

So we took out a cruel disctator who killed thousands of innocent victims, just like we did, when soldiers and marines were given instructions to shoot at anyone wearing a burka. This soldier's statement shows the "don't tell" attitude that is brewing in our country, in our churches, in our community. We're told to just shut up and "support the troops," but who are the troops supporting? It's not about whether we won or lost the war, it's about whether it was just, or as the saying goes, "how you play the game." And as for our "occupation" in Iraq, it's not about whether you have a job or not, but how you conduct your job. There are business men who make millions from stealing or back handed deals to get to the top. But should we ignore, the innocent by-standards, the fallen Iraqi civilians who were killed because they fit the profile? Should we not be criticle of our occupation, of our leaders, instead of being led by a dictatorship, that we so fought hard to take down? ....oh well that's just war. We're in a war against terror, remember. Well, that's fine, and I thank our government for taking action against terrorists. But isn't that like saying we're in a war against "bad people," or "criminals," I mean no shit. Hasn't our military been in a war against terror since the beginning and why did it take so long for them to come out and say it? It sounds for a long time like a public relations campaign or a commercial that we shouldn't be listening to. We should be listening to the soldiers who have come back without this rosy-painted image of our military. The ones who see faults in the military and are willing to speak up and want to help do something about it, instead of white-washing everything over like everything's fine. I have a problem with that. I have a problem with a society that either doesn't care or becomes comfortable with itself. We should never be comfortable, just because it feels good.

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Guest — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:07:24 -0000

ps diane
its a free country, if you want to live in fear, wetting your bed about the "muslim agenda" i wont stop you. i have better things to o than participate in the new cold war.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Guest — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:04:29 -0000

i dont blame one person i blame the whole administration, the whole republican party and all its enablers ( that would be you rez) now that ive provided you with the list you seemed to want all you can do is mock it, not surprising really.

diane
a study done by "acouple of harvard ecomomists" for the nber is NOT a harvard study, its an nber study. what does the national board of economic reporting doing a study on this anyways? im sure if i looked into the org it would be full of war supporting right wingers who paid to get this study done so pro war people lke you could point to in an attempt to shut people up.

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LBRez — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:30:00 -0000

Howie thanks for finally providing the MoveOn list, I appreciate it so we can tackle these issues one at a time. Looking forward to Obama or Hillary restoring everything! The amount of blame you can place in one single person is terrific for a democracy, but I know the retort: Bush is an imperialist and with Cheney and Rove kidnapped democracy. All those poor elected Senators and Congressmen without the powers of the Legislative Branch, all those poor judges stripped of their roles in the Judicial Branch. Thank you for the confirmation and the spelling lessons. xoxo Rez

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Diane — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:23:25 -0000

HowardX, It's almost ridiculous, your quest to read only what you want to see. Look again, this time at ALL sentences.....findings are by "a pair of Harvard economists". Is in that excerpt. My goal was to provide the link you asked Piet for.

My opinion: We shouldn't crush free speech, just realize some of it does endanger our military, and know the Terrorists have internet, and may have even read what we've written. Interesting paradox, one of the very rights our militray fights to protect, actually endangers them.

Andy, Your jokes are pitiful, and your nasty sarcasm is very telling. I met that man (he's Indian) I referred to in Post 14 a few weeks ago. He is a missionary in a Muslim country. He was the one that told me that the purposeful infilitration of Muslims into America IS WIDELY KNOWN. He said we should be wary of the hidden agenda of Islam much like the 911 plot. It is a religious goal to kill the Infidels, WE ARE the infidels. Another source - a Lebanese woman, named Brigette Gabriel who immigrated to the US in '89. She is journalist, former middle east news anchor, author, and public speaker. She operates a 501(C)3 called "American Congress for Truth". He latest book is: "Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America". She lived it, researched it beyond any of us on this blog. She quotes frightening data from the CIA but I'm sure you would not believe the CIA either.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Andy — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:44:04 -0000

Say, Diane..are you single? (ref post 14) I have some Muslim buddies who are looking to come over here and interbreed to spawn terrorist babies to create havoc at day care centers throughout the country...oh, crap...your vigilance has foiled our plot. Plan B...pet shelters.

Re: MARINE TELLS CYPRESS CHURCH THE WAR’S OVER, WE WON | The District Weekly

Phil Northcutt — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:35:37 -0000

The terrorists are also emboldened when we refuse to shoot into crowds at them.
Maybe we should start shooting them wherever they are instead of using
fire control discipline.
It seems just as silly to me to suggest we attempt to restrict our own freedom of speech.
Free speech is one of the most powerful weapons man wields.