The District Weekly - Latest Comments in L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

t_matthews — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:35:41 -0000

bwahahahahah! dave wielenga, you are hilarious.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Dave Wielenga — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:05:06 -0000

Really, that's what you were wearing?

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Shea Shizzle — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 03:32:59 -0000

Yeah, i was there... chillen in the back, tried to say "HI" to Gerry, my long time former neighbor, and was completely ignored... expected, even though im like 6'2" and was wearing a bright green and white jacket with plaid pants. I stayed through Bonnie speaking and yes... same old crap. Its amazing how much planning and thought go into these meetings and how little is actually accomplished. You dont need a 51 page study to see the problems... duh, just try ACTUALLY LIVING IN DOWNTOWN and associating with the actual "PEOPLE" of the city and not just the fat cat insiders.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Mike Ruehle — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:33:23 -0000

Hello Mr. Greet,

Do you feel the same way about the subsidies to the Seafest, the Aquarium, sand movement on the beach, the farmers market at marine stadium, Legends bar, etc? These are all on-going or recently completed subsidies approved by this sitting Council, Mayor and City management. These aren't something that happened years ago.

Nobody is arguing with you that the funds belong to the electorate except the folks that got elected. It is a continuing issue of irresponsibility and self-interest that not for the help of TDW, would not be known to the electorate you frequently shame for their past voting record. Mistakes like this need to continually be pointed out in order to draw attention to whether the city learned from its repeated mistakes.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Observer — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:50:18 -0000

The Chamber doesn't " NECESSARILY need or even want" a low income and low education level worker pool? The emphasis is mine and points out my feeling that you're not sure at all about your own conclusions.

Does the Chamber take the position that it wants it's low income, low education workers to come from somewhere else? I note that I have seen the Chamber take the position that the Port of LB is terrific for this city because the workers there DO largely come from Long Beach. Seems contradictory to your conclusions.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

lbresident — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:43:36 -0000

The chamber of commerce doesn't necessarily need or even want LB to be filled with low income workers. In fact it's the opposite since higher incomes help retail and attract businesses that need better skillsets. The chamber likely knows that there is nothing that says the hotel workers need to live in LB. If the downtown area were to continue to grow it's population with people who have dicretionary income, you can still have lower paying hotel / service jobs. The workers just might arrive by the train from other cities a bit further north than Long Beach.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Dave Wielenga — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:17:54 -0000

Another thing. I actually agree with you in terms of the way things "should" be, but I don't believe that the way to move toward that is to ignore what has gone before. I don't think that you just write off the $750 million already contributed to establish a playing field that is not level (those hotels might have been much more apt to improve wages and benefits if it they had not had that huge cushion). I think what you do is take a close look at the existing contracts between the city and the hotel industry, the existing laws that govern those hotels, and see whether the city is receiving the money it is due. Of course, that happened in the early 1990s and when the Hyatt was not keeping up its payments to the city--and was also about to be foreclosed upon by Mitsubishi---the city stepped in and forgave a bunch of the loan and negotiated down what the Hyatt owed Mitsubishi. Then it paid for a bunch of infrastructure. Then when it invested more in infrastructure---the Long BEach Convention Center expansion---the Hyatt complained that the construction was interfering with its business, so it threatened to sue the city, which then paid a few million more to compensate the Hyatt for the lost business. Meanwhile, workers have to survive as best they can with however the "free market" values their skills. Okie-dokie! Ideals are great, but reality is where we live.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Dave Wielenga — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:09:45 -0000

So, all the taxpayer money that the city spent subsidizing---and in the case of the Hyatt---re-subsidizing hotels is in accordance with the "ideals upon which this great nation is founded"? And what do you think about the police and firefighters' unions?

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Observer — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:41:56 -0000

One of the curious elements of all of this discussion is that the current City Council is dedicated to Chamber of Commerce low income, low education policies. What is better for the hotel, bar and many other industries than a Long Beach populated by low income, low education job applicants. Such a demographic is dramatically not good for the community as a whole but many employers love it.

The twosome of Gary Delong and Suja Lowenthal effectively control a comfortable majority of the Council. That Council is not going to work of the betterment of all of Long Beach when they get their marching orders from the Chamber. And the traditionally worker oriented 1st District may now fall to Robert Garcia, long time Republican miraculously turned last minute "Democrat" and backed by the Chamber. Those who want the largest possible pool of low income, low education job seekers in Long Beach may gain an even more comfortable Council majority.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

lb4th — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 14:08:34 -0000

The problem with the stories of workers who labor for 5,10, 20 years at service jobs and earn low wages, is those service jobs were never meant to pay for a middle class lifestye. Service jobs such as cooks, waiters, housekeepers, hotel workers are entry level low skill jobs. They require no expensive education or training. The smart worker would use those jobs as a "stepping stone" to middle class. The stories of hard working Julia, supporting 3 children while working as a housekeeper at the Hiton are fodder for union 's pushing for $15.00 a hour plus benefits such as employer paid health insurance, sick days and vacation. The reality is, someone making beds and cleaning toilets does not have the skill's that would justify such a pay package. My advice to people "stuck" for years in low paying, service industry jobs is stop being a victim. Go back to school, get your GED, take classes at community colleges or the ROP, don't have children until you have the job to support them. Join a union and your union dues will take a huge percentage of your wage increase if you do get that increase. Remember the recent labor strikes that practically destroyed the supermarkets in SoCal . The outcomes: stores closed, many workers lost their jobs, new workers make less and have to work longer to get benefits, while union dues have gone up 200%. If we destroy the tourism industry in Long Beach with a costy, damaging union fight, no one will win.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Juan Pardell — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:59:36 -0000

Dave: Let's examine a past failure, so that we can address this issue. Had Port Disney been built, most likely, this symposium (sic) may have never taken place. However, most every projection, that resulted from the tourism projects endorsed by former mayor Beverly O'Neill, city councilmembers, city managers, etc., have all failed to generate the projected revenues that were supposed to stimulate job creation and salary/wage increases.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

bruin fan — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 12:47:05 -0000

sorry to hear your so sad Dave on a Sunday, but what do you want the council to do? Do you want them to put an agenda item on the agenda everytime the unions cry? Come on - why should the council get involved in a private matter between the Hilton and its employees? If the employees want to unionize so be it, if they don't then fine - but to have the local politicians get involved when they have bigger fish to fry: budget deficit projected to be $40M next fiscal year; police contract up; buildings falling apart, and talks of furloughs and layoffs - what is more important? I want to see the council focus on things that they have control over and that hit all of us not whether an employee at a private business makes $10hr vs. $11hr. I mean the unions are also talking about a living wage ballot item - are you kidding me? LB already has a hard enough time with what is going on in the economy and the unions want to make it worse. I think that efforts need to be focused on turning around the QM site with a new developer and working on retail efforts as an example over the next year in terms of public/private involvement; that way we get some sales tax dollars and an investment down at QM that has long been needed to help out the city's budget. That is where some of the focus should be by the council.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Dave Wielenga — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:59:37 -0000

Not exactly sure why, Mr. Greet, PatBryant and lbresident, but your responses--which I have just read on a beautiful Sunday morning--made me feel sad.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

PatBryant — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 00:16:09 -0000

Mr. Trinidad needs to invest some time at LBCC (or CSULB) and obtain a job that will provide better for his family.

Also, I've never heard the City of Long Beach (or any other City) suggest that hotel jobs will pay the same as manufacturing jobs. What they DID say was that the Tourism industry would generate tax revenues (sales taxes, bed taxes, etc.)

Also, I don't understand why this is a "union" issue. It is my understanding that the non-union hotels pay the same wages as the union hotels. If the Hilton was unionized, the workers would not receive any more compensation. The overall hotel market determines how much they are paid.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

lbresident — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:40:59 -0000

What John Greet said.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Dave Wielenga — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:05:28 -0000

What scares you so much about unions? Personally, what I don't like about them is that they divert energy that employees could be devoting to doing their jobs better. And I say that as someone who was a union member for 23 years --- an active union member, who wished he didn't have to devote hours of unpaid time to the union or contribute untold dollars in dues. But an imperfect world demanded an imperfect solution. The management at my job was constantly trying to cut wages, benefits, working conditions --- and the quality of the product --- to increase profits. So I devoted time and money to my union, and it helped protect my wages, benefits and working conditions. It also provided me with job protection when I had to speak out about how cost-cutting was hurting the product and taking advantage of customers. Nobody among the rank-and-file really WANTS a union ... until life without one gets too hard to avoid it. Unions are always a reaction to bad management.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

lbresident — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:21:36 -0000

The officials may have sold the tourism industry in LB as something it isn't or at least yet.

Regardless, Jason is right. Determine how much money you want to make and choose the appropriate career. And certainly do not have children until you have created the lifestyle you want for yourself and your children. Having two kids and working as a hotel maid and then complaining about your quality of life is ridiculous.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Dave Wielenga — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:50:40 -0000

Hi John. As I have written previously, this report was commissioned by a consortium of organized labor groups and there's no doubt this group would like to see hotel and tourism workers unionized. It is definitely a piece of advocacy and ought to be considered as such. But it is not full of the kind of angry, divisive language that so often is used in this debate, and I think that ought to be considered, too. I don't think there is much doubt that Long Beach's investment in tourism did not deliver the kinds of jobs that could truly replace those the city lost, and that some sort of solution is needed to the problems inherent in a strata of the working class that has little chance for advancement---the humanitarian problems, sure, but also those of crime and health and a city image that will continue to attract tourists, conventioneers and business. Nobody else seems to be bringing this up. So I see this report as an opportunity to start the discussion. The report calls for a city audit and hearings. Among the things that may be uncovered by such an audit is whether or not the city is receiving proper compensation for its contracts. Hearings will be open to everybody. No doubt, this is a sensitive issue, which is why I give the people who wrote this report some credit for using sensitive language.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Dave Wielenga — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 19:42:21 -0000

Ooops! I made a mistake. I wrote that the city of Long Beach made a "quarter-billion-dollar" investment---it was actually THREE-QUARTERS OF A BILLION DOLLARS.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

McCormick — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:39:55 -0000

Jason, try working at a hotel for one day, you would fail.

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Coastal Advocates Dig Dave — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:56:54 -0000

Dear Mr Walienga,

Thanks again for both of these excellent articles. Let's ask Jason why it is that many of us had similar jobs in the late 60's and early 70s, and actually made more than 10$ an hour? Gas was 40 cents, a pad in the Shore around 300/month, a decent car cost 1000$, and a room in such Hotels fetched 15 to 20 bucks? 4 Decades later, these poor folks make a miserable 10 $ ? Disgusting !! When any business squeezes the little guy so hard, and so routinely, and so blatantly, a lot of us do our best to never patronize them, or send them business.

Also, these trickle down, ''synergies'' promised by all of these 'catylists' remain laughable at best. Most agree, City Hall and certain power players , Port Officials, and schmoozers now have nice places to go for lunch or for week day meetings. But insiders know, half of them go home to Huntington Beach, or Orange County or places similar after work, and rarely retire even close to the town they fouled up. The goal of this revitalization has always seemed primarily to the benefit of people working downtown who are way too overpayed and accustomed to nice, pretty things.

The fact that the best anchor they could attract was Walmart, well, we sure spent our hard Millions to attract that lease !! And guess what? They would have shown up anyway to serve the working poor anyway? Absent all the vacant fluff !!

We took a huge turn towards Old Oakland by betting all of our chips on Port Expansion

So if the Port, is the ENGINE, downtown is the crankcase, and the oil looks pretty dirty. And the sound of the engine annoys most of the residents , the smell of the exhaust is making our eyes blink and itch, the tailpipe stinks, and most know that the average resident would be just fine with a lot less engine, far better smog controls, quieter mufflers

We should have taken a half step toward a modest Port, and a Half step towards revitalizing Beach tourism, waves, surfing and a lot more of the Sunset, Surfside, or Huntington Beach charm, and flair. We would have saved most of this money because private investment would have followed the common sense of making Long Beach, an actual Beach again. Not Port City. , or New' Newark ' (as in New Jersey)California. At least the smell of the ocean might return a bit, to balance out the diesel fumes.

So this 750 Million revitalization makes as much sense to some of us, as this latest 'Port MUST Double' fallacy, combined with all of the self serving, largely disingenous commercials, and the ' we are just great !'' mailings. It is a wake up call that the inmates are running the asylum.. The Port wants to run, and own too much of this town to some extent, ever so subtly. . And ruin plenty of it too..

We'd be smart to say, enough growth for now, cut the pollution at least in half first. And while you are in purgatory for handing us the Worst Air In America, miserable traffic, soot on our homes all the way into Los Alamitos, and various health risks, fund a total Beach and Wetlands Restoration for a period of years to get out of the penalty box.

Getting rid of much of the Breakwater would be a boon to the area. Could you imagine surf shops popping back up downtown? Or around Belmont Pier? Hoards of beach goers flocking towards the Ocean as they do elsewhere? All of that tax revenue and actual business synergy?

But hey, it makes too much sense to invest in our Natural Resources, and benefit from being good stewards of them?? Taking an actual step in a Green direction is just too scary for some, with vested special interests.

Another synergy might be having all those healthy, energetic young folks as a great source of signatures, to help Organize, Unionize and better protect those embarrassingly underpaid people downtown. The extent of the exploitation is as disgusting as the naive, self serving elitism of the Jason's, and Long Beach Residents of this world. Or others living in their own private Idaho..

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Dave Wielenga — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:32:04 -0000

Hey Jason. You may consider the houseman at a hotel to be a "low-paying job intended for new immigrants," but that wasn't what Long Beach officials were saying while justifying investing a quarter-billion dollars of taxpayers money subsidizing hotels. Those officials were saying that the investment would generate the kind of well-paying jobs that would replace the jobs being lost to manufacturing, aerospace and the military. That's really the issue here. You could turn your argument on the hotel industry, too. It ought to be able to pay for its own hotels without subsidies if it wants Long Beach tourists and conventioneers to stay there. Meanwhile, a half-million people a month are losing their jobs all across the country. Do you feel the same about them? That they made bad choices and ought not to have had kids? That they have nobody to blame but themselves?

Re: L.B.’S TOURISM-INDUSTRY POVERTY FORUM BRINGS THE SAME-OL’ HEARTBREAK

Jason — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:51:18 -0000

Dear Mr. Trinidad,
I hate to be the one to tell you, but... being the "houseman" at a hotel is NOT a long-term career move! Having children when you're only making that much is also NOT a good career move. Kind of takes time and money away from learning a profession or trade.
If you work any low-paying job intended for new immigrants to take while they get their bearings, you most likely will not have a very high ladder in front of you. Most often you'll be lucky to get a step-stool.
The hotel industry is what it is. If you don't like it, don't have kids you can't really afford, and use your time and money wisely, instead of remaining in the "same old same old."
You have nobody to blame but yourself.