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I saw one of the women testify at a council meeting a few weeks ago on TV regarding this issue. She complained that she made $10 / hour after 10 years of working at the hotel. She complained in Spanish. Really, if you live in the country for 10 years and don't bother to learn English at a minimum let alone other skills, it's tough to get behind a push for higher wages. Take a little responsibility for yourself.
Also to the article's welfare point, the city shouldn't be bailing people out with "public assistance" either. If we want to be a great city we need to start acting like one. Importing poverty by handing out welfare subsidies is not productive.
I am for learning English though. You should be able to communicate at least marginally in your adopted country.
Oh, and one more thing: next time lbresident testifies in front of a large civic body, I want to be there to see if he is as articulate as Samuel Johnson. You really expect somebody who has english as a second language, and who is likely exceptionally nervous about speaking in front of a governmental body (with law enforcement so close by), to muster a grand, coherent body of testimony in something other than her native tongue? Get real. Is there some reason you actually know that that person didn't know any English? Or are you assuming that simply because she was comfortable saying much more in her primary language she should have forgone the ability to actually say what she wanted to in her testimony and, instead, should have used what might have been a diminished capacity to communicate what she wanted or needed to?
Then again, we do live in a country that doesn't like to give anybody the benefit of the doubt. What? You don't have the proficiency of a native English speaker? You must be a lazy, good-for-nothing, evil-doer exploiting our system! All of you!
Oy vay.
lbresident (1): I would dispute with you that these jobs are “not meant to be careers”. Any job can become a “career” if the employee but chooses to make it one and the employer agrees to retain them. Once decided, however, the employee must be assumed to understand the limitations (including the comparatively lower pay) they will be imposing upon themselves and their families through that decision. As to the English language, I think we can all agree that a person who chooses to live and be employed in the U.S. and fails to learn at least conversational English is doing themselves a grave disservice indeed!
Kelson (3): I would dispute with you that the people you describe are “exploited”. No one in this nation is a slave any longer, unless it is to their own self-imposed limitations. No one forces anyone to work anywhere. If a person wants to earn more than a given employer wants to pay, they are perfectly free to try to seek a better paying job elsewhere. If they find they haven’t the skills necessary to earn better pay, then they have greater freedom and opportunity to acquire those skills here in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world.
If, as seems to be the case, you believe that our current minimum wage laws are unrealistic or inherently unfair, then work to get them changed. The governments (both federal and state) that enacted those laws are, after all, our governments. So gather a majority of your like-minded registered voter colleagues together and compel our government to comply with your preference in this area.
It’s never easy to accomplish such a feat, but few worthwhile things ever are…
Opponents cried foul last year when the city council approved the labor peace agreement for city land leased hotels. They argued that it wasn't fair for the council to legislate fairness into the city's hosptality industry. What will the issue be when the employees have demonstrated their choice for a union? Card check is arguably the most democratic approch to organizing. A clear majority (60 percent) should be where the bar is set.
If it were only that simple.
Our hospitality industry is ripe with potential. Long Beach has to take forward steps and realize that injustice and economic disparity are not virtuous. More residents should weigh in on this. Thanks DW for the the enlightening story.
I don't expect an overly articulate testimony. All I asked is after 10 years of being in the country that you learn English.
And I didn't say anything about manufacturing jobs. Any one of these hotel workers could learn English and be a waiter and earn substantially more than $10/hour.
Let them form a union. I don't care. It won't help them in a material way. Great. Maybe they get a poor healthcare plan and a bump to $13/hour. They will still be poor with no upside. The real problem is they don't have skills. We live in America where anyone who tries and doesn't make devestating decisions (like doing drugs, having a bunch of kids, etc.) can have a life above poverty.
Why don't these pro-union factions start a business and pay all their employees $80k plus full benefits so that they can have a middle class lifestyle? Oh, no!! That would mean invest capital, work hard, do a better job for a better price. It is much easier to sit around and pontificate on what real people should do.
This bile is the reason that all of the manufacturing jobs have left CA. Now, you can guarantee that there will be no hospitality business either. People have choices, they choose to go the the best product for the best price.
These employees have few options, and I say they are exploited.
I hope the chamber union and its' slickster don't get involved, as it will be squashed all over again. That guy is one hell of a unionboss. He puts the prison guards unionboss to shame!
You can sure bet that if it is a progressive issue, it's bad for the country and bad for business! Good riddance!
instead of $27,and getting the best medical care for free and was given money for food (stamps) just by 'immigrating' 30 minutes up the 405 I would not be crying or striking or complaining. You can always better yourself in America but why when your lot in life is 10 TIMES better here than by the standards you are used to. Plus they can go back and forth to Mexico. This is not the same situation our early immigrants from Europe experienced, who left family and gave up everything to come thousands of miles to America probably never to see family again.
By the way, Long Beach isn't just 30 minutes north on the 405 from Mexico.
If you think that their lives are that simple, that easy, then you don't have a clue.
The building leaks when it rains. OK. You remove the dirt and debris from the roof and seal it. You don't spend millions to tear it down or remodel it--especially since it means there will effectively be no library until taxpayers are browbeat and guilt tripped into spending more mega-millions to replace something they already own.
What exactly is wrong with the people in this community that they can't think for themselves anymore?
What percentage of the population thinks it a good idea to pay Acre's of Books 2.8 million dollars to go away?
Why is the main library suddenly a "turd" that needs abandonment?
Sometimes I wonder if something isn't being put into the drinking water around here. People wouldn't knowingly take Stupid Pills, would they?
Think of what, if you MUST spend money we don't have, we could spend it on that makes SENSE!
#2 Never said LA was 30 min away from Mexico my point was ANY where in Southern Cal.
#3 These illegal immigrants have a vastly better life here. That's why they come, duh. Don't compare them to your quality of life but to their prior life in Mexico.
And in this country we make laws--even labor laws--based on a whole host of ideals and principles that are entirely impractical....and yet completely miraculous, astounding, wonderful. We didn't become a shining city on a hill by implementing a sliding scale of rights based on background, or country of origin, OR EVEN MEANS OF ARRIVAL. We did it by basing our laws on notions of shared humanity.
If you want to argue about what constitutes a living wage in southern california, fine. If you want to argue that employers don't owe their full-time employees said living wage, that's fine too. I think that you could construct a valid argument from that premise.
But when you say, "we don't need to care about a living wage for THEM because I KNOW that they are all 'illegal' and everyone is already super poor in Mexico," well, you are relying on a handful of logical fallacies to make your argument.
(Maybe I spent way too many hours in church pews and going to Sunday School when I was growing up, but I never cease to wonder: why work so hard to maintain a position that is angry, mean-spirited, and completely lacking in compassion? Why adopt a political stance that allows you to write off the struggles of an *entire class* of people?)
To think that many of the hotel workers are illegal aliens is reasonable. To think otherwise seems a bit naive to me. Further, I think in most Americans' opinion there should be priority of services, etc. for citizens vs. illegal aliens.
That all said, the issue here remains that these jobs we're talking about aren't careers. They are transitional jobs that enable people a little income until they improve their skills. At a minimum all that means is learning English.
I worked at a local restaraunt about 15 years ago when I was in college. I knew a guy there (about 16 at the time) who didn't speak very good Enlish. He was a bus boy. A hard job that didn't pay well. Amazingly I saw him bartending at the Queen Mary a couple weeks ago at a wedding. Hadn't seen him in 15 years. We remembered eachother and I asked him how things we're going. He had learned English very well. He said he had been bartending for awhile and that it "sure beat being a bus boy". The guy probably tripled his income by simply learning English. I then walked down one of the hallways in the hotel and asked how to get somewhere to one of the maids. She responded in Spanish that she didn't speak English. I wonder if she'll learn English. I wonder if she will triple her income some day.
I'm not adopting a stance of writing off an entire class of people. I do believe in letting market forces work. That aside, I just think the way to improve lives is to enact an environment that rewards effort. Handing everyone a "living wage" encourages people to be content with a sub-standard life.
All of these handouts like affordable housing subsidies, etc. are not helping. People need to stop having kids they can't afford. People need to do the basics. Graduate from high school. Don't take drugs. These aren't hard things no matter what environment you grow up in. Long Beach needs to stop handing out all these subsidies and stop importing poverty. We need to fix our roads, clean up our parks and beaches. These are the things that make a city great and make people want to move here. Pass the bond! How's that for a soap box...
Me thinks Rachel lives in a pretty pink box. All the big employers play the look the other way game as long as they show an SS card to fill out an I-9 form, of course the SS cards can be purchased on the street for $125-200. Believe me I do think that the American employers are the bad guys. Please don't misunderstand my take on this issue as mean or angry of which I am neither. My compassion is for American citizens who have to deal with the growing problems resulting from this uncontrolled and unchecked flow of our neighbors uneducated poor. You need to get out more and then you might understand.
actually, you don't have a clue about where I live, but I'll give you a hint--it's not a pretty pink box. In fact, I don't even live with you in the 90814 area code! And I get out plenty, but I thank you for your concern. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me a shut-in.
*****All I said in the original piece is that it looked like a group of people were being underpaid, since they were receiving a good **$2/hour less than the national average for their subsector**. I said that such a pay scale would make a union look pretty darned attractive. I also pointed out that the city is in the position of providing major subsidies to these businesses, and then picking up the slack when the employees can't afford life in this city.*****
That's it. The next thing I know, everyone is wringing their hands about Mexicans.
I still don't know (a) what makes you think that a majority of the hotel workers aren't citizens or legal residents, or (b) what that has to do with what constitutes a living wage. Again, if you want to argue that employers don't owe their employees a living wage I think we might have a horse race. But when you argue that it's nothing to get all worked up about because we are talking about illegal aliens and they should be grateful that they have jobs at all and why can't they just learn English, well, you are arguing facts that aren't yet in evidence. And we can't make labor laws based on a vague sense of the world as transmitted by Lou Dobbs. Shaping public policy without *hard facts* is sloppy at best, and at worst opens the door to rampant prejudice.
ProgressiveMan: As for being unpatriotic, or thinking that patriotism is "obsolete," well, I invite you to reread #16, paragraph 2. And I didn't say anything about laying back and enjoying a rape, but thanks for the classy metaphor.