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Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

my real name is poodle finkers — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 18:23:57 -0000

I went to public school, too, in rural Texas (and in Virginia and Colorado). I wasn't suggesting that all people who attend public school don't know how to think. Some people find their own way, or a few good teachers help them along, however critical thinking skills aren't a prominent part of any curriculum I've encountered in the U.S.

Just take the compliment.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

otay90 — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:52:37 -0000

Thanks, but, um, I went to public schools. In Florida, no less.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

my real name is poodle finkers — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:21:44 -0000

Ms. Langston, the only things you aren't guilty of are compassion and philanthropy.

Andy, kudos to you. Thank you for not allowing the absurdity to penetrate your logical thought. Unfortunately, people like Ms. Langston are the unknowing victims of the incomplete education the public schools afford our citizens. After all, it's very dangerous to know how to think.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

otay90 — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 16:08:39 -0000

"....For me, being able to see beautiful people while just walking the streets is part of what makes a nice neighborhood. I enjoy the beach at Laguna Beach more than I enjoy the beach at Long Beach partly because in Laguna Beach there is this spot where drop dead gorgeous gay men play volleyball and hang out and I love being able to be in one place and see so many hot male bodies..."

Oh well, as long as you have cogent, well thought-out reasons for what makes a livable city, then I totally get it. Wow. My bad.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

Adreana Langston — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:54:37 -0000

"You basically said I didn't like non-English speaking folks." If that is what you got out of my comment that I was tired of not getting a reply when I attempt to strike up a conversation with a neighbor by saying something nice about the neighbors child because the neighbor can't speak English, that says more about you than it does about my comment.

I never said Adams Point did not have cockroaches. I said I was tired of seeing cockroaches in 90802 that come specifically because people purposely throw food on the ground for pigeons in the morning then don't sweep up or pick up what the pigeons do not eat.

I didn't write that Adams Point was denser than all of downtown Long Beach. I wrote that it was denser than 90802, the zip code in which I live. I didn't write that the behaviors I dislike are only in Long Beach or only in 90802. I wrote that poverty and its challenges are not excuses for unneighborly behavior. I also wrote that other low income neighborhoods, like the on on the "back end" of Catalina, didn't appear to have three things I witness a lot of in this low income neighborhood - dog feces on the sidewalks, loud rap and/or ranchero music blaring out of cars and homes, trash strewn on the sidewalk. I pointed that out to answer what I thought was Finkelstein's point which was that low income automatically means ghetto behavior.

How am I labeling people when more than once I've written that I suspect 15 to 20 percent of my 90802 neighbors are responsible for 100 percent of the unneighborly behavior in 90802? I would consider it labeling if I blamed every neighbor of one ethnicity or one income level or one language or one category for the behaviors I dislike. I do no such thing.

I didn't say Adams Point was perfect. I'm glad you've been there. I was pointing out that it was Urban because you specifically accused me of being unfit for living in an Urban environment like 90802. I was pointing out that I lived in an Urban environment and I fit in just fine. I was answering your inaccurate accusation.

For me, being able to see beautiful people while just walking the streets is part of what makes a nice neighborhood. I enjoy the beach at Laguna Beach more than I enjoy the beach at Long Beach partly because in Laguna Beach there is this spot where drop dead gorgeous gay men play volleyball and hang out and I love being able to be in one place and see so many hot male bodies. So, in Adams Point, part of the reason I enjoyed the neighborhood was due to the fact that I could walk around the lake and see all kinds of adorable mixed-race kids. You've explained that you think that is stupid. Well, okay, you think that is stupid, I don't.
I am sincerely sorry that you took the time to make the neighborhood and your home nicer by putting new plants in your garden bed only to see them stolen. It is really nice to walk passed homes where people have green thumbs and use them.

I'm not commenting to have some sort of argument with you. We obviously see this neighborhood different though I think we both want to see it improve in the same ways. From your comments I suspect, though since I don't know you I can't be certain, that you believe a certain amount of neighborhood character would be lost if a great number of low-income people were to be replaced in 90802 by those who can afford the luxury condos that are sprouting up. If that is what you think I disagree with you. I don't think your stupid. I just disagree with you.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

otay90 — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:49:32 -0000

(part 2)

..whether they're gay or straight, whether they are old or young, or whether they like working on Civics in their front yard or playing canasta on the rooftops. Nude. (don't ask).

But you basically said you didn't like non-English speaking folks, that Adams Point doesn't have cockroaches or cigarette butts on the ground, and that it was some idyllic, Utopian place where all the urban issues have been resolved by the superior residents. It's just not as rosy as you portray it. I've been there.

You can find everything you want by moving into the new condos on Ocean and not venturing too far. But there's a lot of things that are endemic to a real city that you're gonna just have to get used to. Believe me, I hate the MF'ers that throw trash on my lawn and stole my new plants out of my garden bed.

But portraying that as "only in Long Beach" is as ridiculous as it is offensive.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

otay90 — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:39:26 -0000

Well, first of all, Oakland has the Raiders. So, it's always got that handicap.

Secondly, you said "it had the best looking children I’ve seen in any neighborhood due to the large percentage of mix-raced couples." That was your opinion and I'm calling you out on that. I think it's an idiotic opinion, because it was in the context of "what makes a nice neighborhood." Rhetorical discourse 101.

I think all children are beautiful and well-behaved ones make a nice neighborhood, it doesn't matter if they're green, four-eyed, or, unfortunately (in your opinion), not mixed-race. And unlike you, I can actually communicate with the non-English speaking ones.

As for density, averaging the FOUR zip codes that make up downtown Long Beach, you get 12507 folks per sq mile. This includes the whole Pike area which doesn't have a lot of residents. Averaging the TWO zip codes for Adams Point gives you 8872, which if you believe in Math, is less dense.

Again, you're the one labelling folks...I don't give a crap about what people look like

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

Adreana Langston — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:47:44 -0000

Oakland and Long Beach have a lot in common. They are both port cities. They have the same size population. They are listed in the last census as the first and second most diverse cities in the United States. Comparing Adams Point to downtown Long Beach in order to argue against finkerstein's and your inaccurate assessment of my previous post is, in my opinion, relevant. Adams Point had economic diversity, architectural diversity, gender identity diversity, and racial diversity. All of this added to its unique character. I loved Adams Point WITH all that diversity. The posts of you and finkelstein would describe me as someone who wants what you describe as the sterility and sameness of a cookie-cutter Orange County neighborhood. By bringing up Adams Point I was showing that description to be inaccurate. Adams Point was a very urban environment and I was cut out for it just fine, despite what you wrote about me on June 11th.

And what Finkelstein wrote in response to my post is inaccurate in regards to the struggling class. He/She lists all the obstacles and challenges that face lower income residence of 90802 from lack of access to affordable healthcare to lack of access to quality education. I don't argue that point. But here's the thing. I went to Catalina Island something like 3 years ago. I took a bus tour that included showing the "back end" of Catalina Island where the people live who do all the low paying service jobs. The housing stock was crappy but let me tell you what I looked for and DID NOT see:

I saw dogs in people's yards but I did not see dog feces on public areas like sidewalks.
I did not see graffitti.
I heard no blaring music coming out of cars or home windows. In fact some people were on their front porch enjoying music from a boombox but the sound of the music was at a reasonable decimal so it couldn't be heard in the bus.
I saw that the sidewalks were cracked and the streets had potholes but they were not strewn with trash.

It is absolutely insulting to suggest that being poor and/or uneducated automatically leads to having bad manners and being unneighborly. A lot of the low wage workers on Catalina Island that I saw had brown and black skin. From their skin color and their low wage jobs I am assuming that they faced the challenges Finkelstein described and yet their neighborhood did not display the unneighborly behavior of which I am tired in my neighborhood. One does not need a college degree and a professional salary to pick up after one's dog and not throw candy wrappers and soda cans on the street and walk one's children to Chavez Park rather than letting them play dangerously in a vacant lot. Nothing about the very real obstacles and challenges faced by those in 90802 is an excuse for the ghetto behavior of 15-20% of the residents. 90802 can keep its unique character just fine without keeping all the ghetto elements.

I went to Dictionary.com and looked up "denser". It is an adjective. Definition number 1 is "1. having the component parts closely compacted together; crowded or compact: a dense forest; dense population." . Adams Point does have more people per square mile than does 90802, even with the open space of Lake Merritt. So why did you make the statement that Adams Point is not "denser"?

I did not mention disable neighbors and senior neighbors in the abstract. Queens Terrance on 4th and Cedar and the Beach Wood apartments at 475 West 5th are specifically for disabled people. The highrise that shares the block with First Congregational Church and the Mexican Restaurant is specifically for seniors. I walk a lot passed those three buildings. What little vegetation there is in front of those buildings hardly ever has trash in it. When people coming out of those buildings are walking dogs I almost always can see that they have a bag with them to clean up after the dog. The people always smile and speak if you smile and speak to them. I NEVER see the residents of these buildings smoking cigarettes in front of the building then just throwing the butt on the ground (I see that so much in 90802 and it annoys me). I was talking about preferring seniors and disable people as neighbors because of experience that I've actually had living next to neighbors like these. By stating that because I'd prefer these neighbors what I'd really prefer is to live in a graveyard is to insinuate that disable and senior people are not vital or active. That is a nasty thing to say about disable people and senior people. First Congregational Church has disable and senior congregants who live in 90802 and there is nothing unvital or unactive about them.

Just one last thing. In my opinion mixed-race children are prettier (girls)/ more handsome (boys). That's my opinion. Since beauty and "adorableness" is in the eyes of the beholder why would you consider my opinion about mixed race children stupid? If you don't think they are better looking, that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Why would an opinion that can not possibly be based on fact (since it is about what one person considers beautiful) be stupid? I was just mentioning that as one of the many things I liked about Adams Point's diversity.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

otay90 — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:40:25 -0000

Re: #21 Um, no. Life is not like the movie Trading Places. That's the most oversimplified bunch of libertarian claptrap I've ever heard. You actually believe that?

Re: #22 Um, huh? Thanks for the life story, but what is your point? "Mixed-raced" couples have prettier children? That's the stupidest thing I've heard since #21. And it's actually not "denser" than 90802. And...

But, again the point of the posts is not that downtown can't get better (someday we'll have as many "Whole Foods" as Adams Point), but that we don't need to get rid of everything that's given Long Beach it's unique character.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

Adreana — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:14:34 -0000

Hey Foodle Pinkerstein, if your comment is all that why don't you put your real name on it rather than an attack name. My name is Adreana Langston and I completely stand by what I wrote. I spent five years living in an apartment two blocks from Lake Merrit in an Oakland neighborhoo called Adams Point. Me, an African-American woman and my boyfriend, a White man, fit in great there. There was a neighborhood group that was attempting to stop the Oakland City Council from permitting any more half way houses in the Adams Point. Adams Point had the highest density of half way houses for ex-cons, those in recovery for substance abuse and the mentally challenged. So this was not a neighborhood where everyone looked the same or was coming from the same socioeconomic background. It was economically diverse, it was ethnically diverse, it had plenty of gays and lesbians and it had the best looking children I've seen in any neighborhood due to the large percentage of mix-raced couples. It was a lot denser than 90802 yet it did not have the problems I listed in my previous post to even 1/5 the degree. It was not a perfect neighborhood by far. I loved it. The people were cool and neighborly. I didn't leave because I was sick of anything. I left because I wanted to be closer to my folks in Long Beach. You don't know enough about me to accuse me of wanting sterility in a neighborhood. And since I said nothing nasty about you or any of the posters, it lessens your credibility as a poster to come at me with nastiness. I didn't even say anything nasty about my 90802 neighbors, I listed specific behaviors of which I am sick, not specific people or classes or people or types of people. What's more I stated outright that I think only 20% of the 90802 neighbors are responsible for 100% of the behaviors of which I am sick. Andy, you weren't nasty but your accusations regarding the type of neighborhood for which I am looking are just as inaccurate.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:03:56 -0000

We all struggle at times. My objection was to your claim that people have limited opportunity. The fact that one lives in this great country means you have unlimited opportunity.

It's not that hard to stay out of poverty. If you don't do drugs, get a part time job in high school to start building a network, graduate from high school, and refrain from having children until you're married (ideally after age 25), there is an overwhelming liklihood that you won't be struggling in poverty. You may not be wealthy, but you'll get by just fine.

So yes, some are born on third base and some are born on first, but we All have the opportunity to get home if we make relatively easy choices.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

otay90 — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 03:47:08 -0000

Ergo, if you're struggling, you've made poor choices.

We're all born equally smart, able, with a stable family environment, and have the same opportunities from day one.

Seriously, some folks are lazy, some are a-holes, some are Lowenthals, but most are not.

Now back to the topic.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:04:49 -0000

You're right. No opportunity or access to anything in America. Free education, free emergency rooms, food stamps. Freedom to start any business you'd like. Absolutely correct. It's a wonder anyone can survive in this country. The reason people struggle has nothing to do with poor choices they've made.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

adreana foodle pinkerstein — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:28:37 -0000

I propose we change our fair city's name. Who wants something as plebeian as "Long Beach"? There's already one in NYC, and clearly we haven't achieved the cache so desperately longed for by our city officials. Perhaps we should change our name to Adreanopolis. Doesn't that sound oh so Eurosophisticate? And everyone will address each other as Adreana. And we'll be the first city in America to establish English as our official language, publicly enforceable by law.
If you really want to get friendly with your neighbors and break down those language barriers, you could start with a smile and some eye contact.
The homeless are already displaced, but that's okay because who notices them anyway, right, Adreana? Let's displace the families that are already struggling and living in squalor, trapped by low pay, limited opportunity, slumlords, and lack of access to credit and healthcare. Not to mention the kind of education necessary to reverse sociological trends of poverty in minority populations. I like the way you think, Adreana. Why should we even attempt to clean up our neighborhood parks and turn them into safe places with adequate equipment when they serve just as well as places for drug deals and gang activity? Not to mention their service as dormitories for the homeless you so generously refrain from "distaining".
Of course you would like to live among the disabled and the elderly. They don't make a lot of noise, since they either shuffle or just wheel themselves about on rubber tires. And best of all, they die very quietly. No fuss, just a little smell until the mortician arrives.
You don't want to live in a city, Adreana, you want to live in a graveyard. I know you'll find your plot, and there you can pipe in Kenny G's Holiday Album for your undisturbed eternity.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

otay90 — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:20:25 -0000

And the demolition of Acres of Books is exactly the type of "renewal" that will make the downtown character "sterile and boring," but with the noise, funny smells, and cucarachas.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

otay90 — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:10:40 -0000

Which is why I don't live in Belmont, Naples, or the Peninsula.

But if you're complaining about things like noise, funny smells, and cucarachas, don't live in a real downtown, urban environment, like Downtown Long Beach will always be.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:56:24 -0000

Andy, the Irvine comment is unfair. Just because people want to see downtown classed up a bit does not mean they want Irvine. Irvine sucks and we all agree about that. But higher end condos, retail and the people that go along with it doesn't have to be sterile and boring like Irvine. There are homeless and crappy people in SF but you don't pay as much attention because it's in moderation and there is also a good mix of high end stuff. Yes, true urban environments have some of the problems mentioned above but there is a medium. We've got the crappy stuff. Now let's continue to work in some of the nicer stuff.

And as far as LB not getting mega mansioned, you clearly haven't spent time in Belmont Heights, Naples, or the Peninsula. Plenty of mega mansions going up there.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

otay90 — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:01:10 -0000

Hey Adreana, while I'd love to see LB less ghetto (and I share your sentiments about the trash-throwing folks and taggers)...you might think about moving to Irvine.

I live in that stucco-box adjacent housing, in a 100-year old house that I've spent a couple years rehabbing. And some off the nicest, sweetest folks walk by, English-speaking or not, so that's a bit of a broad stroke to condemn everyone who's not just like you.

But you're not cut out for a real urban environment. For well over 100 years kids in cities, scream and play wherever they can. Roaches are part of the urban ecosystem whether folks are tidy or not. And music, whether with tinkling ice-cream man bells or with extra distorted Kraco bass speakers, is also an endemic part of real cities.

What you want is the sterile, faux urban areas of the OC or the New York City experience that's actually in Vegas. I moved to LBC from Redondo because RB was getting mega-mansioned and LB ain't ever gonna be that.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

Adreana — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:09:28 -0000

What I wish, though it is impossible, is that I could PICK the type of economic diversity I want in 90802. I would gladly pepper 90802 with low-income housing for the disabled and for people 65+. Seniors and the disabled, in my opinion, are not typically problem neighbors. But I have no power to do such picking. So I'd rather see the majority of my current neighbors priced out of 90802 because 15%-20% of them make 90802 a crappy place to live with their ghetto ways. When 90802 is remade I won't be among the high income inhabitants. But I'd rather be broke among the moneyed and better behaved than relatively moneyed among the low-income and unneighborly. I'm sick of seeing people throw trash on the street. I'm sick of seeing people not pick up after their dogs. I'm sick of seeing people keep chickens/hens in their front yards. I'm sick of not being able to even say something nice to someone while waiting for the light like "Oh, what a pretty dress your little girl has on." because the adult does not speak English. I'm sick of overly loud ranchero and rap music that I can hear in my home with all my windows closed. I'm sick of hearing kids screaming at earsplit level in the vacant lot across the alley when there is a public park right across the street. I'm sick of watching kids tie trash bags to public signs to play tetherball because their adults are too lazy to walk them a block to Chavez park. I'm sick of stomping on the roaches who come out at night to feast on the bread people throw into the street in front of their homes in the morning to feed the pigeons. I'm sick of stepping over oil stains on the sidewalk which come from the dripping goop the "corn on the cob cart" man slathers over the sticks of corn which I'm sure he sells without a health permit. And I am sick sick sick of the vegetable truck icecream man who plays tin music box Christmas music all year round. I love Christmas music and this icecream truck man is just ruining it. Whatever negative comment might be able to be made about the people who will occupy the newly built condo units going up around 90802, I seriously doubt they will bring the kind of behaviors of which I am sick.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

Adreana — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:55:19 -0000

I was concerned that due to the credit crunch and housing downturn the proposed developments for 90802 would not go forward had they not already begun. So I'm glad to hear that this development is going forward as I was glad to see the earth movers on Third and Daisy beginning that mego condo highrise. I own a condo in 90802 and I'm not particularly fond of many of the behaviors of the neighbors of my complex. I'm not talking about the homeless who I don't distain or fear. I'm talking about the families living in the substandard housing all around 90802. I'm not the least bit unpleased to see them displaced. A lot of them (I'm guessing 15 to 20 percent) behave in really unneighborly/ghetto ways. It may take a decade or so to completely remake 90802 into a zip code with a much higher median income but for me it will be worth the wait. With that change I predict the percentage of people who act in really ghetto/unneighborly ways will drop.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

G.F. Babbitt — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:54:25 -0000

The current downtown construction projects should offer instruction in how greater efficiencies might be instituted when building the condos replacing that Acres of Books eyesore. Rather than simply awarding jobs to every Tomas, Richardo, and Geraldo who comes along, labor contracts might be signed with the governments of Jalisco, Oaxaca, Michoacan--the several states, such that each could compete to exclusively provide labor at a reduced total cost to the contractors. It's time we wised up and took advantage of the catbird's seat we find ourselves sitting in.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

Cyndie — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:42:58 -0000

Long live Acres of Books!!!

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

Cyndie — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:41:46 -0000

Oh yeah G.F. Babbitt, they better hurry up with that project since we're guaranteed to get a fantastic return on taxpayer expenditures...just like every other ballyhooed L.B. retail redevelopment (see PIKE) that was supposed to team with tourists and flood the city coffers with revenue?
If you still believe that line, I got a bridge to sell you...

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

Muffy — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:01:59 -0000

It would seem to be far more cost effective to just round up all the less desirable people down there and have them put in remote camps where they would not be contaminating our environment or blighting our visuals when we promenade...but then there would be no development money sloshing about so I DO see the point in destroying the heritage buildings--they really only deserve our contempt anyway inasmuch as what we build is so superior and will doubtless last several decades.

Re: DEMOLITION TODAY OF SOME BUILDINGS NEXT TO ACRES OF BOOKS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:09:44 -0000

poodle finkerstein, fortunately I think the homeless will eventually move out of downtown so your scenario won't come true. I'm actually pretty optimistic that the demographic in downtown is changing (driven mostly by these higher end residential developments). It's not as fast as some would like but we are getting there. The next step is better retail to serve the changing demographic.