The District Weekly - Latest Comments in 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

wardgjohnson — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:29:18 -0000

Once again we see the evil developers slip into town, pay offs under the table behind closed doors, and the end result with we the people stuck with another white elephant just like we saw the Queen Mary, the Long Beach Downtown Mall, the New Long Beach City Hall, on and on. Doesn't anyone remember when they built the Marina Pacifica Condos or Marina Pacifica Mall the difficulties in the natural geography/geology of the land that arose? A shame to build a 12 story high rise down there only to watch it be swallowed up into the earth come the next big rain storm, earthquake or other natural occurance. Come on developers, go somewhere else. Leave our store bought politicians and incompetent leaders alone that we the people are the victimes, not them.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

JD3 — Sun, 17 May 2009 17:05:46 -0000

Dear Renee,

If you want to see how big the project can be legally built, look at the existing Hotel, and imagine a Low Rise, acceptably dense structure that blends with the adjacent zoning, not sets a Marina Del Rey precedent.

This idea is basically, the prior Lennar proposal was over twice as tall and as dense, and triple it. They want a huge, wetlands destructive, 12 story monster next to an 8 story megalyth, and, an above ground 3 story parking structure.

The traffic impacts will be horrible, despite the claims which will not hold up before the Coastal Commission, most believe, nor the Courts.

You can see the rendering at 2ND&PCH.com. A fairer analysis, based upon actual CEQA analysis, is available at Egrets not Regrets.com.

It is imortant to note that there are a long list of Coastal negatives here, which are incapable of mitigation. A huge concern is the negative affect on the Pacific Flyway and thousands of migratory birds. Another terrible consequence is the affect of light from this proposal which will be visable for miles.

The adjacent Wetlands has hung on for decades because there is a very low level of light at night. It is very dark around this area and this protects the species in the Wetlands. It is entirely possible that the light and traffic generated by this massive idea, could cause over half of the wildlife in the Estuary, to move away, or simply perish.

Sensitive species need a very dark setting to survive. An example is the very low light level around the Bolsa Chica Wetlands and Nature preserve. Notice no mega density? No highly placed light sources? This is important.

If we are truly a Green City, staying strictly within the 35 foot, or 3 story limit in this area is critical, along with the traffic count generated by the former Hyatt House in it;s hey day. A deal is a deal and zoning rules need to be upheld and respected.

Apparently 3 different Lawfirms are basically lying in wait here because this idea is far less popular then the promoters would try to fool you into believing.

Finally, a really nice project is very possible within the present zoning, it merely will not allow gigantic series of structures aimed mostly at huge, outsized, unjust mega profits .

Several respectable entities will be adverse to this idea in earnest most seem certain, and there will be a list of Appeals, and Legal moves. The Political aspect will be quite interesting too. This plan would never get this far if the Councilman was not looking out for his close friends, like the Hotel applicant, who's Dad helped fund and run the Councilmans Campaign.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Renee Weitrzer — Sun, 17 May 2009 14:28:21 -0000

Where do we get more information on the project ? size, height,square
feet of retail, etc...
Stoped by the hotel, no one was there.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Belmont Shore resident — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 20:04:37 -0000

We don't want to have the best City Council money can buy...but perhaps we do. Long Beach is the only large city in California who does does require lobbyist to register. (San Diego, San Francisco, Sacramento, Santa Rosa, Santa Barbara...etc...etc DO)This alone has hurt the public perception of city government when ethical rules and regulations are not adhered to. Taking money or favors from constiutents in exchange for votes is an inappropiate method of influence and used big time AND the public is completely in the dark on who these influence peddlers are. Many of us know some of them.....
On August 5th, the 3 member Council Elections Oversight Committee will look at this issue again and if approved will bring it before Council. Hope so--they have been talking about it since 2002!! The strange thing is that the Lobbyists such as Kemp and Murchinson have been lobbying against a "Lobbying Ordinance". And City Hall likes to say they have a transparent city government.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

90277rulezon — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:19:08 -0000

By far, the greatest hurdle for residents & taxpayers, has been your city council's penchant for accepting low standards. Ask yourselves if you believe your current city council is capable of bucking that trend.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Surfer Meg — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:46:37 -0000

"Oh Yeah, Yeah, Yeah....."

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:59:31 -0000

I'm not a developer nor am I affiliated in any way with one. I'm a homeowner in the area who would like to see the area beautified, high end retail, and a boutique hotel in the area. I guess I'm just open to hearing the developer's proposal and seeing if there is promise.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Janis Populi — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:05:56 -0000

Kudos to RH Naples! Thanks for coming over to the bright side! Your ****** stars with me. Long Beach needs people like you! J

"And I went down to the demonstration
To get my fair share of abuse
Singing, "We're gonna vent our frustration
If we don't we're gonna blow a 50-amp fuse"
Sing it to me now...

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you just might find
You get what you need
Oh baby, yeah, yeah!"
Rolling Stones

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

RH Naples — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:18:37 -0000

Well, my apologies to you L.C along with Surfer Meg. My wife has been on me all day for my comment on this web site this morning. I am 65, and yes I have actually forgotten how it was to be young and idealistic....and right!. YOU are right...we do have zoning laws and there is nothing I would like to see more than a low rise luxury hotel. Kudos to LC for outing the developer LB resident.

As a resident of Naples-I am with you. We are east Long Beach and we deserve the best-5star -all the way!! Am willing to fight for it!

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

L.C. — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:48:10 -0000

My facts were taken from your web site today. (+ 100 on the hotel) Oh, and when did you add the 20,000 sf commercial/office that you spoke of on the 29th? You tend to forget the city has been through this charade before-with Lennar. We have talked. Play by the rules and I'll be your biggest supporter!

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:28:57 -0000

Your facts are outdated. They cut the total living spaces to 325. We'll see what happens with height. Negotiation works better than outright opposition to everything without talking...

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

L.C. — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:26:41 -0000

To Long Beach Resident.
People are brighter than you think!
This project is bigger than Lennars!
Compare:
Lennar had seven stories-highest point (35 feet is zoning max)
450 residential units
170,000 sf retail space
1700 parking spaces (not enough-needed variance)

New Project 12 stories highest point
450 living spaces with hotel*
200,000 sf retail
1900 parking spaces, (not adequate)
20,000 sf commercial/office
*According to web site today: 100 hotel rooms, 100 residential condos that are affliated with hotel and 250 residential units in addition to hotel condos.
This should NOT proceed further as it is against our zoning laws and the majority of the public don't want it. They should instead get started with a developer who can see the magic that is there. A beautiful low rise hotel that conforms to our zoning as well as the Coastal Act. Dragging this out forever will just end up where Home Depot did and that is a huge waste of time and money.

PS. I am not a member of the Wetlands
L.C.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Another LB Resident — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:17:52 -0000

I live not far from the fabulous intersection of 2nd St/PCH and I am in favor of a new hotel. But not one bigger than what is currently there. Certainly nothing that will be 8-12 stories.
If it is zoned for a hotel, then just build a nice hotel for this side of LB.
I sure as heck do not want any residential units there. We all know traffic is horrible and, in my opinion, nothing they put there will be worth the increased traffic it is sure to bring (shame on Mr. Ratkovich for assuming residents would think that).
And who the heck do the developers think they are by asking to ignore the zoning laws? Very nervy of them. But, with DeLong running the show, they're sure to get their wish. Too many times it's been obvious he does not have the best interest of the 3rd District in mind.
This whole thing bothers me. Will the city/DeLong really listen to what the residents want? Of course not. The developers will have their 12-story buildings and those of who live in the area will have to suffer with even more traffic.
As it is, I try to refrain from traveling south of Loynes on PCH. I miss my family, but...

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:17:40 -0000

Juan, your last post was rational. But basically the theme is "LB has screwed up so many times I don't want to give them another chance." The problem wih that is that you remove any opportunity for bettering our community. Why not let this process play out, demand as residents the amenities, etc. we want, and if we don't get it in the builder's contract, we don't support it and the project never gets built. That is what happened with Lennar. They wouldn't pony up or compromise and they didn't get their project.

At least for this new development team they seem to be listening. It may be a small concession but at least it's heading in the right direction that they have reduced the condo amount from what Lennar proposed by 100 condos. My bet is they don't end up proposing a 12 story building but rather 1 tower with a height of 6. Maybe some can live with that.. The wetlands trust folks can't but they are the minority (I believe). All I'm saying is let the thing progress a little before we say LB could never bring in quality retail, build a nice looking building, etc. Don't defeat the thing before the game is in the first quarter.

Maybe you haven't been here in awhile but East Long Beach has a very strong retail demographic these days without an East Long Beach shopping option. Your contention that the area can't support it is false in my opinion.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

L.C. — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:41:20 -0000

To Naples Resident,
I hate to burst your bubble, but you have very little to say about the Project's development, (except perhaps how you want your median landscaped)
If you had attended several of the presentations, you would realized nothing has changed despite the negative response. And yes, the public has given their input-to no avail.

Dave's title says it all. We do have zoning laws. The developers are completely arrogant and think they can ignore height, density, and most importantly what is suppose to be built on that parcel. And so instead of a slam-dunk project with a 5 star hotel (which east Long Beach deserves) they are trying to push this mismash on us, and instead of 5 stars, they want to add in a Joie de Vivre brand hotel which deals mainly in 3 stars. So the process will go on and on.
And Naples resident, I can't believe you want a 12 story tower there with an above ground parking structure.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Juan Pardell — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:34:19 -0000

In response to lbresident:

Juan, there is a difference between value of real estate (your 90802 example) and high incomes (like in 90803). Real estate can’t buy things but incomes can.

1.Yes, but one can surmise that high property values equates high income levels. Then again, many speculatores were purchasing downtown LB property during the hot real estate market.

I didn’t say Neiman Marcus. Obviously that is too big for the site. But how about Brooks Brothers or smaller high end boutiques?

2.Perhaps. However, who will shop their stores on a regular basis? How can these store be convinced that they can achieve a positive return on investment? Its plausible, but they will expect at sometime to be profitable.

And people drive to Cerritos because they can’t drive to LB because there is nothing to drive to.

3.Long Beach blew the opportunity when the downtown mall closed. What could have served as a distinct opportunity to positively provide better retail for your city, was squashed by the Walmart anchored Cityplace project. That particular concept, added no value to the surrounding area, and did not give many Long Beach shoppers the alternative they were hoping for.

And yes you do have the right to exercise your freedom of speech. I said as much. I guess I just wonder why you don’t do it on issues in your own town. Since you don’t have to deal with the crappy infrastructure, lack of high end retail, etc. that we all do on a daily basis, it’s a bit disingenuous to encourage people to vote against anything that might actually make some positive changes.

4. The project will produce a positive change if its done correctly. Frankly, that's a frequent, opposite occurance in Long Beach.

Naples Resident has it right. The naysayers never have anything constructive to say. They just try to kill everything and anything.

5. Naples Resident won't be too happy if what starts out as a high-end hotel project ends up becoming a Best Western or Motel 6.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:02:35 -0000

surfer meg I wasn't drawing a distinction between high end and specialty. fundamentally I think the property would do well with the stores you listed. I don't think high end and specialty have to be mutually exlcusive.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:46:18 -0000

Juan, there is a difference between value of real estate (your 90802 example) and high incomes (like in 90803). Real estate can't buy things but incomes can.

I didn't say Neiman Marcus. Obviously that is too big for the site. But how about Brooks Brothers or smaller high end boutiques?

And people drive to Cerritos because they can't drive to LB because there is nothing to drive to.

And yes you do have the right to exercise your freedom of speech. I said as much. I guess I just wonder why you don't do it on issues in your own town. Since you don't have to deal with the crappy infrastructure, lack of high end retail, etc. that we all do on a daily basis, it's a bit disingenuous to encourage people to vote against anything that might actually make some positive changes.

Naples Resident has it right. The naysayers never have anything constructive to say. They just try to kill everything and anything.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Juan Pardell — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:10:57 -0000

I haven't stated that Long Beach shouldn't support this project. However, you only need to examine the most recent development history, in the city, to conclude that most of these proposals never satisfy what was originally presented. I agree, a nice upscale hotel would do wonders for that property. Whether this group can deliver it, will be the question.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Naples Resident — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:59:46 -0000

Why are people even talking about retailers like Neiman Marcus? How many times have you guys driven by the property - it's really not even that big. This is supposed to be a small shop quaint walkable retail street and who wouldn’t want that? I, for one, would like a well designed place to go to for upscale dinners and for everyday shopping. I’m tired of driving out of Long Beach to satisfy these needs. Additionally, I would love a place were my family and friends can come and stay – a hotel that I’m not ashamed of and one that shows how great Long Beach really is. Look – of course, developers are developers and they have their own agendas… but, given the history of failed attempts to develop this property and having met the development team at one of their presentations, I find it ridiculous that you guys aren't at least supporting the process that these guys are going through - I finally have some say in what's going to happen there - why don't you all try giving some real feedback to them to help them develop something you actually want or could at least deal with vs. just complaining. I’m a long time Naples resident and I honestly think this would be an asset to our community. I’m tired of people with nothing better to do than to shut projects down like this that could benefit me, my family and my friends.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Surfer Meg — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:49:18 -0000

To LB resident (above)

As a woman shopper I have to tell you-you are off base! If one can believe
the SEADIP survey, high-end retail was NOT at the top of the list from the community. (in fact it was a low write in). Speciality retail was top, (examples: Apple Computer store/jewelry store) One of the growing trends in Speciality retail are the carts and kiosks in Malls. Speciality Retail was followed by a close second for recreation facilities. This is a small property, (10.5 acres acording to city), there is no room for a store the size of Nordstroms, Macys, or any of the other large stores women would frequent maybe twice a month. We might have had high-end retail at Marina Pacifica, (we all cried when Buffums left) but instead Loeman's was given a 3 million dollar incentive by city to locate there.
We have some lovely stores at the Market Place as well as Belmont Shore.
Remember...the SEAPORT MARINA property is zoned only for a hotel. No residential nor retail allowed. And as a woman with a very healthy income I, like many others, have discovered other ways to spend money during these hard economic times. Even, and perhaps especially rich people watch their finances!

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Juan Pardell — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:27:21 -0000

Perhaps its just my enthusiasm for wanting to exercise my first amendement right to freedom of speech. Whatever the case, I am a former Long Beach resident, and I've seen how poor decisions have ruined a city with probably more potential than any other in our state.
First, let's examine the realities of development projects in Long Beach. Chronologically, you don't have to do much research. What was perceived for downtown, has not materialized. Yet, the 90802 zip code had one of the highest appreciable real estate perimeters in the nation. Did that make Cityplace of The Pike more successful? Purporting a similar argument, for what you hope will transpire at 2nd & PCH, is not realistic. Not when you have Cerritos Mall right up the 605, and better shopping opportunities in Orange County. If this project comes to fruition, you may get a couple of small boutique store. However, don't hold your breath for Neiman Marcus.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:57:24 -0000

I'm not doing an entire analysis for you Juan. I was giving you one data point. Consider the 200,000 people in east long beach with an average income of over $70k plus seal and the fact that a good development would draw from even outside lb and seal and it's not too hard to figure it out. There are valid reasons to think this project doesn't make sense but the lack of demographics to bring in high end retail is not one of them.

This is not meant to be flippant, but I really wonder why someone who doesn't live in Long Beach has such a vested interest in issues (infrastructure bond, local developments, belmont shore parking commission, etc.) critical to those living here. You have every right to comment but it's hard to believe you have the right perspective considering you don't benefit or suffer from the actions pursued.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

Juan Pardell — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:43:12 -0000

lbresident ----50,000 est.? That is nowhere near enough of a population base to convince an upscale retailer to consider a location. The Palos Verdes/Rolling Hills/San Pedro area has a larger population with far higher estimated income levels than what you mentioned. Yet, that wasn't able to sustain a Saks Fifth Ave. at the PV Mall. The reality is Bloomingdales, Nordstrom, etc., will factor in the entire demographics of a community much larger than 50,000. However, nice try on your part.

Re: 2ND+PCH PROJECT WILL SEEK PERMISSION TO IGNORE ZONING LAWS | The District Weekly

lbresident — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:33:04 -0000

For Juan and those that think high end retail isn't going to happen consider that the median income in 90803 is $104,000. That's for a 50,000 population and doesn't even consider nearby seal beach who's median income is just under 100k. Also, at the Nordstrom in fashion island, 10% of sales is from 90803.

There is plenty of draw for high end retail if there was a place to put it.